Wrist Picking - Tension vs. Relaxation

Playing Technique
#1

Hi. I was so inspired by the new CtC motion tests that I had to make a forum post. My question is this:

When picking from the wrist, should the player stay completely relaxed at all times, or would it be more accurate to say that the muscles controlling wrist motion are generally relaxed but take up a small amount of tension solely when the pick is contacting the string?

Note that when I state that the muscles take up tension while the pick is contacting the string, I’m not trying to say that it’s an extreme amount of tension, but only a minute amount that maybe the player isn’t consciously aware of.

There’s this concept I work with where as the pick approaches the string the muscles activate, and then when the pick contacts the string they take up a very small amount of tension. After the pick crosses to the other side of the string the muscles relax and then this process repeats for the opposing muscle group for the upstroke.

I could really use some help with this question and concept. Am I on the right track here? Does anyone have a more accurate concept or ideas to build on this concept? Finally, this isn’t really a big deal, and I am no expert on this topic. I’m just looking for some help, and to bounce a few ideas around.

#2

If the hand is moving, a muscle is causing it to move, not just when the pick hits the string. But that’s kind of a moot point. Because trying to think through the micro-sequence of physical motions that need to happen as a pick moves through the air is totally overthinking things and not really possible at real-world playing speeds anyway. Any feeling you have of controlling individual motion parts while playing is probably not really what’s happening.

In general, most players we interview describe feeling relaxed when they play. Obviously, muscles have to apply force to picks and strings in order for the instrument to make sound, but the key here is that our best evidence suggests that none of this should really feel like work. Just try and move fast in a way that feels smooth.

If it’s not fast and smooth, it’s not right!

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#3

Okay cool. Thank you for answering my question good sir. You have a great day!

#4

@Troy isn’t that what you’re doing though. Over thinking movements? Not in a bad way. You’re literally taking a natural movement and overthinking it. Dissecting it.

#5

I know you’re not trying to be rude, but “overthinking” has negative connotations. It implies missing the point by focusing on details that don’t matter. It’s not how I’d describe our stuff. And we hope others wouldn’t either.

With that in mind @CalvinScarified apologies! Didn’t mean to be dismissive about your comment. We’re always trying to boil down what we’ve learned into hands-on type advice that people can get results with right away. Sometimes I whip myself into a lather about not overthinking things but I’m really just yelling at my reflection!

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#6

All good.

After reflecting on this topic a little more, I came up with two additional questions/food for thought if anyone has time to take a look:

  1. It feels like I can flex/extend my wrist faster than I can deviate my wrist. I think @Troy touched on that in the motion tests, yes? Where the table tap motion could approach 240 bpm, while the other wrist motion tests were around 210 bpm. I can even perceive this difference in speed without doing any sort of test. What’s up with this?

  2. Tension seems to inhibit wrist picking, but for elbow picking tension seems to increase the speed. Why is this?

#7

I don’t know why flextension is fast. But I would suggest one reason is that we have a lifetime of training in this motion, and much less in others. There could be some physiological reason, but we’d need real scientists to test that instead of internet guitar dummies like me.

I think the good news is that the difference might not matter that much. Most people who complain about speed limits are way below the limits of any of these tests, because they don’t realize they’re doing the motions wrong. And just getting them over that barrier closer to the speed of the table tests, provides a huge range of tempos to play at. Even with a practical maximum of 210 or so, I can still play complicated lines at 200, even including bits of single-note-per-string, like you find in ascending / descending fours type patterns. So as cool as it would be to have 240 on tap for wrist motion, it’s not a thing I spend a lot of time worrying about.

Re: elbow tension, Brendon Small describes zero tension when doing elbow motion. So does Bill Hall. It certainly looks that way for both players. If you’re talking about hyperpicking, that’s a different story. It seems to be a distinct type of elbow motion that requires some kind of interplay between two tensed up muscles. That’s just how it works.

However players who are really good with hyperpicking don’t describe a painful feeling of murdering their arms like people sometimes complain about with elbow motion. I think these are two different types of muscle action. People with the “bad elbow” problem I think are unnecessarily tensing up stuff that doesn’t help. They are trying and failing to do Small / Hall elbow. Players who are good at hyperpicking activate that higher gear in a way that feels athletic, and potentially tiring, but not painful. At least the ones who are good at it.

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#8

Wow! That was really helpful. Thank you for sharing those insights. I feel so inspired to practice and play guitar!

#9

By no means am I saying that it’s a mistake to work on isolating a single picking motion - I definitely think it’s worthwhile to examine each of the essential motions (ulnar/radial deviation, pronation/supination, and flexion/extension at both the wrist and elbow joint) in isolation to get a feel for the ins and outs (of the strings :grin:) with each, but don’t pigeonhole yourself into looking at a 3 dimensional movement and trying to turn it into a 2 dimensional one. I think most if not all successful pickers employ a combination of these movements even if they have a bias towards just one or two of them, so if things aren’t feeling super natural with the way you’re practicing the wrist picking - maybe give yourself a little wiggle room to employ some other movements and see if that reduces the fatigue? While there’s certainly a muscular component to guitar playing you’re not trying to produce acutely localized fatigue in an isolated muscle group like you might think about training other muscles at the gym. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting some other muscles pick up the slack if you’re feeling a little more tension than you think you should be while playing.

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