Advice: Reasons why pick is getting stuck on the upstroke?

Playing Technique
#1

Hi Everyone!!!
Im new to the forum… so big hello :slight_smile:

Ive been trying to develop my picking technique and notice that i keep getting stuck on the upstroke. Im leaning the pick into a downward pickslant. So it glides nicely over the string on the downstroke. But as i come back up it gets caught. I assume the angle of the pick causes it to dig under the string stopping it from gliding back over. I dont have and videos im afraid and no way to attach my phone to guitar as yet. Anyway, im isolating the issue by focussing just on picking hand, leaving my left hand out for now. But this is where i keep getting stuck.

Hope this makes sense. So my questions are:
(1) Is this common?
(2) How do you get past it?

Really appreciate your advice! Thanks folks, glad to be part of this group :+1:

Andrew

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Pick rotates in hand
Bridge Lean vs Neck Lean. Does it matter?
#2

Edited to include Troys terminology
I had exactly the same issue when moving into downwards pick slanting. I think you right in assuming that the angle of the pick is the problem (that was the diagnoses I made in my own technique). I found my solution in the Teemu interview. Teemu and Troy discuss how there are three angles to picking: picklanting (which is the majority of what Troy discusses), edge picking (i.e. how much of the picks edge you use), and then lean which is the angle at which the pick comes into the guitars body.

The picture below is what I would describe as having a neutral lean, pick is perpendicular to the body of the guitar, I find when my pick is in this position upstrokes can be a bit sticky.

Neutral Angle
Neutral Angle.JPG3024×4032 2.05 MB

When I added a slight angle like in this photo the stickiness went away. I’ve exaggerated the position I use so you can see the difference between the two positions. Troy calls this bridge lean in his post below

Slight Angle
Slight Angle.JPG3024×4032 2.03 MB

Have a play around with lean angle, I found even a slight angle to be a near instant fix. I’d be interested in hearing peoples thoughts on why this works, I think It might be to do with the surface area of the pick, but then it could also be down to the fact that this angle introduces more of a rounded edge for the string to slide over.

Good luck with experimenting!

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#3

Wow! Thanks so much for that detailed response. Ill give that a try. Awesome!!!

#4

No worries, I just checked the Teemu interview and they talk about angle of attack in around the 35m mark :slight_smile:

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#5

Same here,

I had the same problem. And I also noticed that the pick gets less stuck depending on which string I am playing. Turns out that my angle of attack (or shall I say edge picking ?) was different. Therefore, I was getting stuck with some patterns while it felt smooth with others even though I had a downward pick slant. So I focused on reproducing the same smooth angle with all string and it got better. After some practice it felt natural.

Anyway, I see Troy is typing his answer at this very moment. So my answer will soon become obsolete :grin:

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#6

Great post! I went back and re-watched that moment just now, and I realize Teemu and I are talking about two different things. What you’re demonstrating is the same as what Teemu is demonstrating. For lack of a better term, and just so I can keep these movements separate in my mind, it’s what I call “lean”. It’s the third dimension of pick geometry.

We have edge picking, which is one axis. Then we have pickslanting, another axis. And the remaining one, where the pick tilts either toward the bridge or toward the headstock, would be lean. With all these dimensions, I consider the point of the pick, where it meets the string, as the vertex of the movement. So imagine that the point is stuck on the string and can’t move. Now lean the pick toward the bridge - that’s bridge “lean”. Now lean it toward the headstock - that’s headstock “lean”. It’s clear in my re-watch that this is what Teemu is talking about, and what you are also pointing out, and that I missed what he was saying!

The thing I mention in the interview is the angle the forearm makes as it approaches the strings. This is what I call “approach angle”. It is essentially the same plane as edge picking, just done with the arm instead of the wrist or fingers. Most people approach between maybe 10-11 o’clock with respect to the guitar body / strings.

All these axes are related of course, but what you and Teemu are getting at here is created when you rest the right side of the palm on the bridge - that causes the bridge-ward lean. It is possible that this related to making the pick/string contact smoother just given the way most people’s arms rest on the guitar. Anyone who is having issues with this care to test, let us know.

Great catch!

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#7

I think I have the same problem. How did you figure it out? I mean, I look at my picking and it all looks the same to me :expressionless:

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#8

Thanks @Troy, I’ve just edited my post to include your terminology. I’ve found that experimenting with the lean angle was what I needed to do to cure the problem @AndrewWhitfield is having. Although I suspect all the 3 angles are equally important and finding the personal sweet spot between them is a process every guitarists has to go through, consciously or unconsciously

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#9

This is interesting! My pick “lean” goes the other way–the point naturally leans towards the bridge of the guitar. I always wondered why it ended up this way.

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#10

Thanks again guys, this is all gold! The idea of ‘lean’ is fascinating for a couple of reasons: pretty sure ive heard Troy mention it before but always assumed it was the same thing as edge picking. Secondly, relating to the baggage we guitarists carry from years of studying inaccurate material - i thought fast picking required the very end of the tip to brush the string. So when i setup my right hand against the bridge, would always compensate on the pick ‘lean’ to ensure the tip was pointing straight toward the string (perpendicular).

I had a quick experiment with your suggestions before i left for work today. Even then i noticed better consistency and less drag. Ill play more when i get home. But now im conscious of it i cant wait to see where it goes with practice!!

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#11

When I started to use pick I was “silent” picker. That time I noticed that I often miss a string on upstroke. After watching some videos (including ‘Cracking the Code’ series) I’ve changed my strategy and now I try to pick as strong as possible, which changed my technique. So first time I had the same problem - pick stucked on upstroke. Then after some practice problem had gone… until I decided to learn DWPS. And now I have it again ((

In my case problem is in trajectory of my pick. While I’m using DWPS I still use motion in a plane that is parrallel to guitar body. So my pick on upstroke is like a shovel. And you can’t have a good picking with a shovel.

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#12

Hi!

As Troy mentioned in this thread, there are three axes that define the way your pick approaches the string. And there is the trajectory that the pick travels after you hit the string. For example, my DWPS improved once I stopped anchoring my pinkie on the body of the guitar and having floating picking hand fingers. I found out that anchoring is influencing and limiting the trajectory and making it different between the high and low strings. I am not telling you to do the same. But I am recommending that you experiment and see what helps you achieve consistent DWPS.

With that being said, I still fell uncomfortable on the A and low E strings when doing DWPS. Still working on it. But I am starting to think that it’s the nature of the guitar that the lower strings are a bit harder with fast picking because I feel that my whole hand is floating. Maybe somebody can comment on that. I even thought about extending the bridge vertically to have an extra element to rest my palm on.

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#13

I get more or less correct picking when rotating and placing hand in such manner that I just can’t use clean wrist deviation or elbow motion. So I start to use rotating and it works - there’re downstrokes to guitar body and upstrokes away from guitar. It works until I try to increase speed… that’s where I stuck.

1st string is definetely the easiest one to experiment with DWPS. But when I use my usual approach it seems like 6th and 5th string becomes easier to pick fast. I think it’s because of my anchoring - I use edge of palm and that part of palm which is near the thumb (I don’t know how to call it in english)

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#14

I do that too ASTN! My pick strokes are more arc instead of linear. So when i DWPS the upstroke has that shovel effect you describe, which becomes way more prominent when i increase the speed.

#15

When you guys hold the pick are you clenching the pick - sort of forming a fist? Or is the thumb and finger that grips the pick extended?

As ive been experimenting with my picking issues i find extending the thumb and finger creates more slack as it hits and attempts to cross the string and can aggravate my issue described above. But then if i clench too closely i tend to pick more across the strings rather then picking toward the body on the downstroke, which can also cause the pick to get stuck on the up-stroke (the shovel effect mentioned above).

What path does your pick stroke follow across the strings? Eg. Vertical straight line = top of middle pickup to bottom - OR - Diagonal = top left to bottom right.

Have you found picking becoming more awkward when fretting higher up the neck? Is it just a case of persisting through practice that will eventually resolve this?

#16

You can see my grip in my video on this forum:


It’s not very extended and not very close. I just hold the pick in such way that it wouldn’t jump out of my hand.

Looks like my pick moves diagonally, though it’s not so obvious near the 6th string. Besides I think with such grip and movement (wrist deviation or elbow) you can’t have an edge picking without diagonal trajectory, and I have some edge picking.

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#17

We tried to sort out the universe of pick grips when we did our pick grip poll. Run through the questions and you’ll see the photos:

https://troygrady.com/2016/10/24/whats-your-pick-grip-take-the-poll/

If one of those matches the questions you’re asking, this may help communicate to others what it is you’re trying to ask. If what you’re referencing is not present, let us know so we can add it. Eventually we want to hammer these out into a reference that anyone can look at and say, OK, I’m doing X, Y, or Z.

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#19

hmm…i think i do this when I tremelo pick. I will have to look into this, thanks!

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#20

So I’ve copied what I think is your pick grip in the first photo below. On the pick grip poll this is called pad to pad. I moved away from this grip because I found that the joint closest to my fingernail on the index finger would hyperextend slightly when doing an upstroke, this made the pick require more force on the upstroke giving it a sticking sensation. To circumvent that I had to grip the pick harder and that just made alternate picking in general more difficult.

IMG_0567
IMG_05674032×3024 1.6 MB

I went for this grip instead. This pad to side on the grip poll

IMG_0566
IMG_05664032×3024 1.42 MB

This affored me more control over the pick without additional grip strength because the knuckle closest to my fingernail can’t hyper extend. I think angle pad grip would achieve this as well, I just ended up with pad to side out by chance when experimenting around before I knew about CTC. Try some alternative pick grips from the poll and mix and match them with the three picking angles and hopefullly you will have some luck in removing the sticky upstroke :slight_smile:

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#21

This first photo looks a little more like angle pad, which is what I use most of the time. This is when the pick is sort 45 degrees on the index finger - not quite side, not quite flat to the pad. Pad to pad would be totally flat on both fingertips.

To make matters more complicated, there is probably a spectrum of variations in between the two.

I really want to hammer out exactly what all the pick grip variables are in common usage. It’s such a fundamental thing and it’s amazing how loosey goosey we are in describing it / teaching it / etc.

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