Bridge Lean vs Neck Lean. Does it matter?

Playing Technique
#1

One thing that was never brought to my attention until recently is “lean”. I use no lean or neck lean.

I’ve found out that Teemu does the exact opposite. Bridge lean. And I think @Troy uses bridge lean also. The pick is more stable with bridge lean. With my neck lean approach, the pick rocks on my index a little bit. This causes a laggy pick snag if I am playing something with vigor.

I am trying to decide if it is worth learning how to pick all over again using bridge lean. Pick is more stable but it’s totally alien feeling when I pick that way.

Who uses neck lean here? Is that another bad habit I have from being self taught? Or is it common?

:bear:

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#2

As per this thread:

…lean is only necessary if there’s a pickslant. What it does is help smooth out the pickstroke opposite the slant, to reduce the ‘garage spikes’ issue where the pick digs under the string. However there is a subtlety. Simply spinning the pick in your grip so that it points on an angle, like George Lynch used to do, is not lean. Leaning the whole arm/hand is lean. In this respect I don’t think anyone can really be a “headstock lean” player unless they actually pronate their whole arm and lean it toward the headstock.

So!

Bridge lean is for downward pickslanting grips specifically. To get the smoothness benefit of lean, at least the way I do this, the pick has to stick out from your grip at 90 degrees. Then rest the side of the palm on the bridge, or use Gypsy type arrangement. The upstroke contact will ride the trailing edge of the pick and not grab.

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#3

…actually, I can see how this can happen if someone uses a Gypsy style approach with a lot of wrist flex. That could cause the whole grip to point toward the headstock. However in my test of this just now, the upstrokes tend to clip, again due to garage spikes. So in this setup, lean isn’t helping.

I think the general principle here, no matter how you position things, is that the pickstroke that is opposite the grip slant needs to have the longer edge riding the string. This prevents garage spikes. A variety of hand positions and grips will probably produce this, but the longer edge for the opposite stroke is I think what’s significant.

#4

I didn’t see the previous thread, I searched lean, sorry bout that.

Ok… All I want to know is what to call the direction that the pick is pointing, bridge to neck… I have been calling it pick lean.

(picture my thumb on top of the pick)

Teemu does this, trailing edge catches the pick wear.

Bridge%20Lean
Bridge Lean.jpg3258×2443 1.5 MB

I have been doing this, I wear out the leading edge of a pick.

Neck%20Lean
Neck Lean.jpg3258×2443 1.51 MB

I don’t think this should matter… because any stop spiking I might have on a upstroke, Teemu would have on a downstroke… I think they are just the ass-backwards opposite of each other is all. Does this matter?

Edit: I know everything I said about the pick wear is repeating what you’ve said already. I wasn’t ignoring it, just repeating.

#5

Neither. I use 90 degrees only. Then I lean - there’s that term - the hand to produce lean. I don’t “point” the pick within the grip. No joke I think we need another term here, maybe it’s “point”. So much geometry, so little time.

The concept behind lean, again, is that the long edge of the pick needs to contact the string when you’re doing the pickstroke opposite the slant. If you are not using any grip pickslant, then you don’t need any lean.

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#6

This geometry sucks. What do you mean by 90 degrees? the pick point from your hand? Looks like a hammer? So you point the pick toward the neck pickup by leaning your wrist back some?

#7

This is a “picture is worth a thousand words” type scenario. In the most recent Crosspicking lesson we did a whole segment on grip where I talk about the grip I’m using for the roll patterns. And in that grip, the point of the pick sticks out from the thumb at 90 degrees, so it forms a letter “T” where the thumb is the top part of the T and the pick is the vertical.

That’s how I do it, that’s how I’ve always done it. If it starts to slip and tilt one way or another, and this does sometimes happen, I stop and adjust it.

#8

Ok, I got it… I think Teemu does the same as you… I pick neutral, but I point the pick toward the bridge pu with fingers sometimes…

That is why Teemu said he can’t do that and was curving his wrist out in a arch… Because he must be keeping the pick grip at 90 degrees also. I thought it was his grip that had it pointing toward the neck pickup.

I guess man, I don’t know. I have bad timing on catching the picking livestreams.

:bear::+1:

#9

I’m doing that and the pick attack is heavier, in the pocket, and my forearm is rocking… Well I’ll be a son of bitch.

:bear:

#10

Interesting topic…

So, providing you hold the pick 90 degrees and lean the pick with the hand, does it implies that for bridge lean you have to be supinated and for neck lean you have to be pronated ? I can’t see how it could be otherwise, i.e. if you’re pronated I can’t figure out how possible is it to lean the pick towards the bridge (again: with the pick held 90 degrees). But maybe I miss something ?

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#11

Yeah, this a VERY important part of picking mechanics that needs to start being noted in players IMO. Troy is calling it “LEAN” as in a bridge lean… This is something that players use to do 2wps alt picking I think. The trailing side of the pick catches all of the wear in players that use this. The only way I can achieve this “bridge lean” is by holding a slight wrist extension with a 90 degree pick grip. Or, by bridge leaning the pick with my fingers. I’ve never f***** done this in my life. lol. It’s pretty damn uncomfortable.

But it looks like this is how most people are playing, with bridge LEAN? I see it now in Troy, Teemu, Paul Gilbert… and most dominate alternate picking videos shared on here.

I assuming, and observing, that players like Joe Stump, Yngwie, Marshall Harrison, and myself do the polar opposite. It’s a neutral pick point. Leading side of the pick is catching most of the wear. Because when a point direction is needed, it’s a slight neck lean with the fingers.

In my experimentation, with bridge lean bigger aggressive picking movements are easier. Being a machine gun to a metronome click would be easier this way… But all other elements to my playing, expressiveness, nuances, harmonic control, perfect muting… those all suffer. Maybe it’s because it’s ass backwards to how I’ve played for 25 years. From a musical stand point, I don’t think I can switch now, I’m just too used to my way.

Try to speed read this @Troy I tried to keep it short.
:bear:

#12

As far as I know, this only matters if you have a pickslant, and the rule is seemingly simple: the long edge goes against the string on the pickstroke opposite the picklant, to prevent the “garage spikes” problem of digging in.

That’s it. Based on trying out various grips, I don’t think any other variable really matters. I don’t think bridge vs headstock matters. And if you’re not using a pickslant, lean is not necessary. If you are, you just need to put the long edge on the string and whatever hand setup does that for you, whether bridge or headstock or 90 degrees or not, will work.

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#13

Thanks Troy, I understand.

:bear::+1:

#14

Pretty interesting. I was working on some cross picking mixed with some even note groupings and with the DWPS approach and after a bit of time i felt the pick kind of lean i looked down and saw that business end of the pick was facing more towards the neck but it made it feel a lot better for sure.

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