Critique Troy's crosspicking!

Technique Critique
#42

Hi, the outside picking pattern I’m talking about is the second video in my post above. I’m not playing at those kinds of speeds there, though I have done it in the past. No video, and genuinely don’t know if I’d be capable of it anymore.

I was something of an alternate picking purist when I was a teenager. I know that I could do that pattern as 16th note triplets at 140 because I was able to play Steve Morse’s Tumeni Notes at that speed (14 notes per second), and I was often able to play that pattern as fast.

In more recent years, my tastes have moved away from the hard, percussive sound of alternate picking and my alternate picking chops have declined.

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#43

Hey Troy. OK, I just made this right now, and its SUPER ghetto video… and I am literally ‘holding’ my phone with my fretting hand (so its just open strings)… so this was super awkward to make.

But its just to get an idea of my form for cross-picking so you can critique it. Its a work-in-progress of course… As you can see… once I get up to around 170ish… the errors start to pile-up. (But its surprising how much better it sounds when I cover it up with distortion and good fingering… lol)

Anyhoo… you can get an idea of the pinky/ring finger sliding… and you can see the thumb which helps push the index finger up… but there are components to it that are similar to your x-picking technique. I do this form for pretty much everything including tremoloing… but the strokes are slightly smaller for 2,3,4-notes per string playing. But its super reliable for other things… I just need to improve a lot of the one-note-per string patterns (especially outside picking)

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#44

Hi @hamsterman,

I’m not sure if it’s because of the awkwardness of holding the camera phone with the fretting hand, but it seems like the level is inconsistent as you start picking faster.

In my experience, this was a symptom of the pick depth changing randomly as I tracked across strings. When I was able to maintain a relatively constant pick depth, the feedback I felt from each string became more even and I could increase the tempo. I’ve outlined how I approached solving this issue above.

I also seems that your upstrokes tend to travel further past the picked string than your downstrokes, so the arcing path of your downstrokes might occasionally not be large enough to escape the strings.

Again, the video was obviously very awkward to shoot, so my assessment could be completely wrong.

#45

I can definitely feel the awkardness of holding the camera causing tension… and the ‘tightness’ in my form probably does cause problems ‘escaping’ the strings on the downstroke. Maybe I should practice more while holding a camera… lol.

But there may be insight into what you are saying… I was a DWPS… so I still ‘gravitate’ towards that bias when I get sloppy… and its definitely more common for me to ‘swipe’ on a downstroke.

As far as the change in pick-depth… I’m pretty sure that’s from the ‘tightness’ from my awkward positioning in combination with the tightness from going out of my comfort zone. I could feel that right away. It’s good to know though… and kinda highlights the importance of having a good relaxed form.

#46

I’ve never played flatwounds - in fact until this moment I never really looked up what they were. That looks cool, I’d like to try them.

No this is just the usual Mustang / clean tone on the amp.

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#47

Great playing Tom! A little hard to see from this perspective what’s going on - is there a finger component to this? Looks like there might be, or it could just be the angle. Also, short sleeves help to spot forearm and elbow movement.

Because you’ve got the headstock pointed up classical-style, a proper tripod mount for your phone will let you better point it down the strings. We have an el-cheapo like this and honestly it works fine:

We also have this one which I like better because you can swivel without moving the tripod. It also blocks the screen a little less:

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Cmcgee 902 picking motion critique
#48

Awesome, and looks to have lots of potential. But same critique as Tom - a nice tripod mount is what you guys need. Cheap tripod, cheap phone holder like the ones from Amazon above, and nice bright light (or open window) and you’re good to go.

Also, if you don’t yet have a phone that can do 120fps, it’s worth investing in one if you really want to film your playing because the video is much sharper at that speed, with much less motion blur. Almost any phone from the last two years takes amazing video for diagnostic purposes.

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#49

Thanks @Troy,

If there is a finger component, it’s not there by design, and this mode of picking was very much a product of careful design and methodical revision.

I’m quite sure that there is little to no finger movement at slower tempos. At higher tempos, it does seem like my thumb extends slightly on downstrokes, further helping them to escape the strings. This might be an illusion created by the angle and the prominent “thumb bump.” It could be the “frame” created by the thumb and forefinger is naturally changing shape throughout the movement due to the lack of muscular tension. It could be that the frame I’m subconsciously changing the frame shape, and that I just don’t realize that I’m doing it.

As I’ve mentioned before, I have other modes of picking. I feel that my capability for crosspicking and strict alternate picking is at it’s highest in this mode.

I’ll look into getting a tripod and a phone mount. I have a Galaxy S7, I think it’s capable of slow motion video.

Sorry about the sleeves, I was cold!

EDIT: Also, does anybody else find it bloody confusing that we have two topics with nearly identical titles?

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#50

Fixed. I don’t normally refer to myself in the third person like Tarzan, but I’ll compromise for the sake of clarity!

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#51

@hamsterman In another thread you mentioned that now you prefer crosspicking in almost all situations because it is more reliable. Is this also true for DWPS-friendly licks/riffs? You clearly have a perfect DWPS technique, so I wouldn’t see the need to introduce cross-picking for at least these situations - isn’t it like doing more work?
Also I don’t have much expericence playing live, but I would imagine a simpler “linear” movement like DWPS is easier to control during the “excitement” of a live metal performance. In contrast, crosspickers like bluegrass players tend to play in more “academic” positions like sitting down with a footstool.

PS: I just realised Wintersun + Arch Enemy are coming to london but the venue is fully booked :sob: I’m contemplating selling a kidney to buy tickets from resellers though :wink:

@troy Also Julius Caesar was famous for referring to himself in the third person. But to go full Caesar, you also need to highly praise the enemies you just defeated. Like you could have started your video by saying “crosspicking is a near-impossible picking technique that involves the highly complex coordination of 100s of muscle groups” - then you proceed to melt faces as you have done above :wink:

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#52

@Troy I couldn’t help but notice some people on YouTube want to shave your arm.

:bear:

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#53

Thanks… I definitely will. And I will get a 120 fps as well with a bright light. I am living in the stone age… lol.

#54

Great question Tommo… I had no intention of switching DWPS to a curved cross-pick for the reasons you mentioned. It was going to only be for one-note-per-string phrases.

It was about 2 months into the cross-picking practice (about a year ago)… I would use cross picking 3-note per string runs for warmups… and after a while… it just sounded so much better… and eventually… even my tremelo got better. My 3 note-per-string warmups sound SOOOOO good right now… MAB good. When I get a phone-mount… I’ll demonstrate. Also… I can do 3 note per string to 2 not per string (ie… the blues scale… or a caged scale) and it sounds really nice.

The reason it sounded better was

  1. its easier to be precise when you always do the same motion. (one stroke to rule them all)

  2. the ‘additive’ effect of using 6 mechanics at once gives me a really nice contact with the string. I use thumb + finger + wrist deviation + wrist extension + rotation (+ elbow when I hit about 150 bpm)… and together… they make a curved shape (sans the elbow). I can get this combo up to about 230 BPM max (but that’s outa my comfort zone). At that speed, I DONT clear the strings on both ends because my strokes are smaller… but what I do is a sorta pseudo-2WPS where I rotate slightly further when I switch strings. If you watch my 3-note per string runs… you wouldn’t see it… so it looks like I am defying physics… but its super subtle. I’ll make those videos soon. My posted video is a terrible representation of it… lol. It was only to show the basic form. And again… .I still need to improve my one-note-per-string tracking… especially with outside switches.

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#55

NOOO!!! if he does that… he’ll lose his super picking powers.

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#56

Them rugged man hands will lose the magic! :rofl:

#57

This has explained something that’s been going wrong with my playing - I’ve had a tendency to miss the last note on a string, especially with fast metal rhythm parts, and it’s because I’ve been trying to use the wrist both to complete the last stroke AND move to the next string rather than using the elbow to move the whole apparatus.

#58

Indeed, but I think this deserves a more scientific analysis.

My theory is that the forearm bristles act as a kind of spoiler, without which the aerodynamic downforce generated by the extreme forearm speeds would throw his picking off line. And that this could be one of Troy’s secrets; you’ll recall he asked David Grier to expose his forearm - whilst cunningly disguising his motive!

I think we should be told.

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#59

Hi @Prlgmnr.

I’m glad you found my post helpful.

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#60

I also tried your strategy and was surprised at how simple it was–I could definitely feel a difference almost immediately. Very interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

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#61

This is funny, but it reminded me of something that happened last week. I wore a ring on my picking hand. Not a beast ring or anything crazy. I found I was more mindful and aware of my picking hand motions.

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