Economy picking

Playing Technique
#11

This has helped me a load in doing economy. It’s the way you come back up to repeat it that is the key, as that gets you the repetitions.

Bad video I probably shouldn’t do this stuff before I go to bed lol but seriously it works, it’s worked for me, I know this works as my whole playing is now based off this simple 3nps scale run. It is USX, so idk if thats what you’re after, but it works.

The pull offs make it work, and allow you to just grind it out over n over mindlessly, rep after rep. The pull offs coming back down are whats import. It’s down, up, pull off, when decending. Thats what lets you repeat it over n over.

my pick is generally 45 degrees. And I really do believe that small run has helped me more than anything. You can play most stuff with it. Or at least that style, it just works man. Do a lot of extra stuff to make it work for everything, but it really has been the key for me. It takes care of most picking, usx with pulloffs, or economy then pull offs to descend. That 3nps up n down run has help me loads.

#12

when you do it, is it the michael romeo more faux rotational motion, the cesario slicing motion, or slicing motion with mental circular motion?

i might try to work on the michael romeo version as this isn’t a way i ever used the thumb/index just to see if i could utilize something with this motion compared to the others.

#13

I wanted it to be the Cesario motion but I’m not convinced it is, my movements look too small compared to his:

I don’t recall the Michael Romeo motion but obviously love his playing, is his a bit flatter in appearance?

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#14

the best way i have seen this motion was in that video discussing takayoshi ohmura’s helper motion speed picking video. here he is describing how the thumb and index have this half legit half faux rotation that you can get out of it. i think this is kinda how michael romeo does it.

Whole Video
Takayoshi Ohmura picking technique

Timestamp of faux rotation

Doesn’t it seem like this is what Romeo is doing during his economy picked explanation phrase?

Although I was quickly watching some of his newer solo video shoot videos on YouTube, and here it seems like when the tempo really starts cooking he starts using a ton of elbow motion with much less of that thumb/index thing.

Blazin tempo seems like some elbow to get to the speed required.

#15

I’m not sure, if I would have to guess I would say he uses RDT wrist USX but I really don’t know, doesn’t seem to be a significant thumb/index thing but it can be hard to spot. I can’t tell if he’s using elbow motion in the last clip or if it’s just for tracking the jumpy phrasing, either way it sounds incredible as always!

#16

yea i am not sure either but it is evident he is using that thumb index like shown in the explanation of the takayoshi ohmura. now if he does some rotation or if its back and forth only he would be able to tell us. the reason i think there is some rotation during the upstrokes on the musically ascended side. but this is why its so tricky because its not quite rotation anyway its kinda a faux rotation, only very little rotation with the thumb index unit depending on how much the body can kinda do.

#17

So economy picking in my opinion is a more nuanced feel based technique that take a bit to get used to. It also is a technique that doesn’t necessarily require a USX or dwps picking hand because you are not trying to escape anything.

It may be more helpful to give pointers if you post a vid of where you are getting stuck and what feels off to you.

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#18

The rest stroke really helped me doing economy.
Having that tactical rest lets you be much more even. Just knowing about it and feeling it lets you be far more loose in your picking forces. Same as sweeping which is basically economy. Acually understanding its ok to put force on the next string helps a load.

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#19

if you already have a firm grasp on this that grisha picado exercise concept that i showed above can really help develop speed, but it can be a very quick brutal exercise on the fretting hand, highly efficient/beneficial. DONT GO OVERBOARD LOL!

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#20

Is it the first one you posted here?
image

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#21

yes basically just having a brief gap pause and adding a note each time. i think this was the first picado exercise in the video, the other to me seems like it would help develop flamenco 3 finger economy picado. both against the grain of what he is showing since he is teaching traditional picado, but it can help develop 3 finger economy picado if you are after a matteo mancuso technique.

this same ascended add note brief gap loop can be done descended as well you will just have to have some kind of motion developed. i use mainly thumb index when doing it descended.

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#22

For me I’m only using a pick, I can do that alternate ok, but this should be a great exercise for swybryd picking. I’ve been trying it but it’s akward for me.

The full hand stuff is really cool.

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#23

of course this is where you should be going but these techniques can take time to master. but the quicker you start to incorporate them the faster you will develop something to then begin to master it for speed. however they can quickly overlap the more broad main technique of one way escape which to me is the technique that is most freeing for carefree playing. these tricks are for when you need a hack if you will so you can attain a tempo. well at least that is how i view them so it is my opinion. if you can do these things and ingrain them so deep than that is great i envy you. :smiley:

#24

https://youtu.be/J641ZwkYR-I?si=bkiBssCaZFUtJtzW

#25

Here is a link https://youtu.be/J641ZwkYR-I?si=bkiBssCaZFUtJtzW technique help

#26

Thanks for the video! Hand sync is probably the main thing to work on, based on watching that. I’d break it down string change by string change

Considering a phrase like this (sort of C harmonic minor flavored):

B|------------------12 13 15
G|---------12 13 15----------
D|12 13 15-------------------
   d  u  d  d  u  d  d  u  d

I’d focus on nailing this:

G|---------12
D|12 13 15-
   d  u  d  d

Making sure you’ve got perfect hand sync, hard accents too for the first downstroke on the D string, as well as the first downstroke on the b string

Then see if you can do this

B|------------------12
G|---------12 13 15---
D|12 13 15------------
   d  u  d  d  u  d  d

Same thing, go for perfect hand sync, hard accents on the first downstroke of the D, G and B strings

Also, for a lick like that, you want to make sure you don’t get “lazy” with the fretting hand (not saying you were, I actually wasn’t watching your fretting hand). By that I mean each finger needs to release its tension as the next finger frets. That way you’re never caught off guard when you suddenly need a finger. I see this happen to people if they leave all the fingers down as they ascend then “suddenly” they have to scramble to lift the index finger to fret the next string. The “right way” will have your fretting hand just cycling as if you’re drumming your fingers on the table, like a little motor.

#27

Thank you! I have noticed my fretting has been lazy lately.?Thanks for the advice!!

#28

I think I might do it slightly different to Joe I’m not sure?, I do it just 123… 123… 123. For the basic technique. The dots would be the resting on the next string.

Like I say in the video you can do the same coming back down, but I prefer pull offs. Usx, rest stroke and pull offs have let me play fast. It might not be metronome perfect, but I’m not after that, I like the looseness of it. It’s got more character to me rather than a perfect on time picking technique like alternate.

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#29

A brand new guitar AND a nip slip in the same video!! Lol!

Playing sounds great too. Honestly I see benefits in your approach and mine. They each sort of focus on a different aspect. Yours isolates the clean economy motion. Maybe that is step 1 and mine is maybe step 2, where it helps to sync the hands at that critical point of the string change.

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#30

So I do agree with the others that you do have sync issues which honestly isn’t uncommon when first trying to get this technique under your fingers. most of the time it’s reactionary and either hand tries to compensate for the other. Most often the fretting hand.

The other thing I see though, is that you are going at it a little rough with the picking hand. Again this is likely a compensation.

I honestly think you are trying to play too fast right out of the gate, and this is a time you need to back it down and focus on the coordination. This is the hardest part because this technique is naturally a faster one but you already are playing it a decent enough speed to know it’s not an inefficient picking hand technique.

How is your hand sync normally - playing 4’s and 6’s?