Elpii technique critique

[elpii]

I discovered CtC last year and since then I think I’ve managed to remove stringhopping from my playing. I think I used some kind of downward pickslanting even before that but I guess not always and not in any organized fashion. But I realize there is obviously some problem in my picking mechanics. Thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate it.

Sadly, my recording skills are even worse than my guitar skills, so this is the best I could do. This is the highest speed I can achieve right now and even this feels sloppy, no two notes sound the same.

[guitarenthusiast]

I don’t really see anything wrong here dude. Your picking hand and motion looks good to me. You just need to keep practicing the motion and the key is to remain as relaxed as possible while you do it. It takes so many repetitions of the same pattern to build speed.

Also, for what it’s worth, there aren’t many people who can play at 180 BPM. There aren’t even many who can lock in consistently at 120 BPM 16th notes. The internet =/= good representation of the average guitarist. I wouldn’t put much stock in that poll…don’t let it discourage you…

[PickingApprentice]

I can’t tell if its just my eyes or not, but does your pick bend when you play? If so, you could try a stronger/thicker pick…

I would work on the tremolo a bit with bursts of speed. Try setting the metronome at a comfortable speed and play as you did in you clip, but every so often add a small blitz of fast notes (could be as little as 4 notes) and then go back to the usual speed. It does matter if the faster notes are not strictly in time at this point, just make sure they are a shift in speed and that you are still quite relaxed. Doing this will allow you to feels the sensation of speed, like going into a higher gear. I had a similar issue where it was almost like I was scared to play fast, like I was anticipating it too much. I had ‘let’ myself just play fast and get out of my own way.

Let us know how you get on! Good luck

[elpii]

I wouldn’t put much stock in that poll…don’t let it discourage you…

The fact that other people are able to pick faster doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is what my skills could have been today if I did things differently. And I don’t really need to be able to play 200 bpm licks, but right now I can’t even play most of the Page/Blackmore/Hendrix stuff.

I can’t tell if its just my eyes or not, but does your pick bend when you play?

No, it moves in my fingers so it looks like the pick bends. Something Steven Morse does also, I think. Maybe that’s what’s wrong. You are the second one after TheDivineSage to suggest small bursts of faster picking. I’ve tried this before but as I said, I didn’t think it was working. I’ll give it a serious try now. Thank you all very much, you can’t imagine how much I appreciate your feedback.

[TheDivineSage]

@PickingApprentice

Try setting the metronome at a comfortable speed and play as you did in you clip, but every so often add a small blitz of fast notes (could be as little as 4 notes) and then go back to the usual speed.

Exactly. This is pretty much what I was saying. All it takes is a few notes at high speed for your brain to have that “a-ha!” moment. Then it’ll understand what you’re shooting for and keep trying to get back to that feeling more often.
I can remember practicing a fast run over and over in speed bursts and then taking a break for 5-10 minutes. Once I came back it seemed much easier to hit higher speeds for longer stretches.
Other than what others have already said, the only other critique I could add is that your hand seems a little tense and your picking motion is kinda wide. You might want to really focus on a relaxed wrist and try smaller back and forth movements. Less movement equals less time to get back to the string for the next stroke. It’ll make you sound a little quieter at first, but it’ll be easier to increase your speed. Once you get faster you can use more aggressive motions for a louder attack like you see Troy do in his vids.
I know it can seem a little discouraging when you can’t hit the speed you’re looking for but you seem persistent enough, so just be patient and keep at it, you’ll get it sooner than you think.

[PickingApprentice]

No, it moves in my fingers so it looks like the pick bends. Something Steven Morse does also, I think. Maybe that’s what’s wrong.

Nothing is wrong if it works! The things is that it does take a little tension to play fast. Morse does do this with his crosspicking, but maybe not so much with his elbow mechanic??? I would recommend experimenting with anything that might help. Try gripping a tiny bit tighter and see what happens.

You are the second one after TheDivineSage to suggest small bursts of faster picking. I’ve tried this before but as I said, I didn’t think it was working. I’ll give it a serious try now.

Make sure you post a video of it, so that we can see. I’m sure that you will crack it soon!

[Troy]

This is the highest speed I can achieve right now and even this feels sloppy, no two notes sound the same.

I don’t really see anything wrong here dude. Your picking hand and motion looks good to me.

I agree, this looks good! You’re not stringhopping, and the movement looks fluid. You may be able to hear inconsistiencies in your attack, but I don’t. At least not to the point where I would think something is specifically wrong with what you are doing.

Regarding the smoothness and speed of this, that really depends - we need to know more.

For example, were you a hard-core stringhopper who just landed on this movement a month or two ago, and this is as fast as you can go currently? If so, no problem. That’s a very short amount of time - too short for me to really have any concerns about your actual abilities until you put more time into it. In a situation like that, I would say you’re doing everything right, continue on.

At the other end of the spectrum, if you told me you’ve been playing this way for years, looking exactly as you do in this clip, and under no circumstances can you move you hand more smoothly than this, or faster than this, then I might think something is up.

So, a few questions:

• Is this absolutely the fastest you can move with this technique? A lot of times players on the forum say this is their fastest movement, but when pressed, they say things like oh, well, I can move faster but I can’t control it, or it sounds bad. I’m not concerned about that yet. What I want to know is if you can move your hand faster than this, using this form, regardless of what it sounds like and even if you miss notes.

•Have you tried any other picking motions, such as these?

https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/introduction-to-picking-motion/

Are any of them faster? This includes upward pickslanting movements like elbow and wrist using the more pronated arm setups we discuss in that broadcast. And it includes movements you might not like, or you don’t think sound good. At this stage, we’re just surveying your body mechanics, and trying to get a sense of where your aptitudes are. Everyone comes to the table with a different set of experiences and those can lead to differences in ability you may not even be aware of unless you deliberately try as many different picking movements as possible.

• If you listen to only the downstrokes in this clip, and forget about the upstrokes, can you tap on a desk faster than those downstrokes? How much faster? A lot? If so, congratulations, you have no speed issues. Your mechanics are fine, the problem is elsewhere. What movement are you using for the tapping, wrist flexion/extension? Or elbow? If so, try a picking motion that uses that. See bullet point number two.

[elpii]

For example, were you a hard-core stringhopper who just landed on this movement a month or two ago

Maybe not hard-core but I was a stringhopper and started practising pickslanting maybe 3 months ago.

A lot of times players on the forum say this is their fastest movement, but when pressed, they say things like oh, well, I can move faster but I can’t control it, or it sounds bad.

Exactly this. I was always told to only practise at speed that I can control everything and it sounds 100%. Otherwise I’d be practising mistakes. So as the other guys said, I will focus on small bursts of high speed picking no matter the sound of it and will try to clean it later.

can you tap on a desk faster than those downstrokes?

I see what you mean, yeah, I can go much faster than that. 170 bpm seems to be the limit for this at the moment. And the movement is wrist flexion/extension but it seems I can get the same speed with deviation. So there’s obviously enormous potential for growth there. Thank you all very much, I have a lot to do now. I’ll sure post my progress. I’ve also just watched the Andy Wood interview and it is very insightful for me. You got out of him exactly the things that he just figured by himself and that I would never get on my own.

[elpii]

So it’s been a month and I would like to share my progress. I’ve been practicing simple licks at speeds that are much above my limit. Right now after some waming up I can play a few 16th notes at 150 bpm. I’ve also noticed that every few days the mechanics of my right hand changes a little. Like right now I’m using much more fingers movement than I ever did, which is strange, but allows me to get into higher speeds. One thing I’m struggling with is hand synchonization, but I guess it just gets better with practice + chunking.

Also, I was unable to find a “how would you play this” topic. Maybe it would be a good idea to have one. There is this one simple lick that I cannot wrap my head around:

Obviously you cannot use only DWPS, but even 2WPS doesn’t work and I cannot make it even with using sweeps, so what am I missing here?

[Brendan]

Hey, thanks for sharing a progress update!

Also, I was unable to find a “how would you play this” topic. Maybe it would be a good idea to have one.

I like this idea…I think having it be one mega-topic could get crazy, but there have been a few great discussions with this format, for example:

How would YOU play this?

I’m doing a metal version of a song from the original Transformers soundtrack and have come across a phrase that is stumping me a little. here it is with downstrokes and upstrokes notated: [Capture] My problem is where the red line is: going from an upstroke on the 10 of the A string to the 7 on the D string. The only thing I can think of is to instead of playing the 10 on the A string, play it as a 5 on the D string. Here is the original audio clip from the soundtrack just in case it helps…

How would YOU play this Andy Timmons lick?

Hi fellow coders! I am trying to learn how to play this lick played by Andy Timmons in the studio version of A Night To Remember. I really love how the lick builds the tension towards the bent pinch harmonic: [image] I think it sounds really cool when played fast and with proper technique, the way Andy Does it. How would you guys play it? I think the speed in the original song is somewhere close to 120 bpm. Could be faster, but not by much. But I think it’s fairly fast for this kind of licks…

I’d say feel free to make a new post for this (or anything else) and maybe just include the song / lick / artist + “how would you play this” somewhere in the topic title, to make it easy to find.

[Prlgmnr]

There is this one simple lick that I cannot wrap my head around:

Sounds like mainly pull-offs to me?

I think fingering possibilities exist for any picking method you might wish to use.