Finger joint swelling, advice please

General Music Discussion
#1

Hey folks,
so since I started playing again this year I’ve had some pain and stiffness in my fretting hand every morning, and I’ve found its worse the more I play the day before.

I was hoping that it might just be my muscles and joints getting used to playing again but it’s not going away.

It doesn’t really affect my playing once I get going but in the morning my hand and in particular my fingers are locked and very hard to move. It seems to be swelling in my finger joints.

Now I know people will say stop playing for a while and rest it. I know that’s the advice but that will be very hard for me to do as I’m currently unemployed and very bored, so I’ve been able to start enjoying playing again for the first time in years and I don’t want to lose that.

Has anyone else had a similar problem ? I know I’ll probably need to see a doctor and a specialist to get to the root cause I just hope it’s not serious so I can keep playing.

Thanks in advance for your valuable advice.

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#2

Sounds more like an “ask a doctor” situation than an “ask the guitar forum” situation.

But I would try gentle warmup movements, flexing and extending the fingers and wrists, wrist circles, light stretching and maybe something that offers some gentle resistance in the opposite direction to the closed hand position of guitar playing like opening all the fingers and thumb with an elastic band wrapped round.

Gentle massaging of the forearm muscles with a bit more pressure applied to any tender spots, it’s worth using an object like a ball or the handle of a wooden spoon or something to do this otherwise you run the risk of straining the fingers doing the pressing. Any shooting/spikey/nervy/tingly sensations then stop.

Switching your hands between bowls of hot and cold water can also help with circulation if that’s a problem.

These may also be of assistance:

(I know ju jitsu has nothing whatsoever to do with this but some good hand/forearm care tips in there.)

Personally I used to suffer from terrible circulation to the hands/fingers but the more I got into weightlifting and being generally more physically active the less it affected me until it went away.

Swelling that restricts movement sounds possibly more like the onset of something more serious.

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#3

Hey @SlyVai, can you post some images or video of your most used fretting hand postures? We have some knowledgeable people here who may be able to suggest some changes to improve comfort! @Tom_Gilroy :smiley:

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#4

Jaysus that first exercise is probably the worst thing you could do if you fingers are in trouble. I mean look at his poor frets! The other two would be OK though…

#5

Deal with this from time to time due to climbing. I’m guessing it’s a lack of warming up enough and an increase in volume that your connective tissue isn’t used to (you mentioned that this is the first time in a while you’ve played this much). Other factors could be less impactful but still important, like hydration and nutrition. I would analyze your playing and see which movements are aggravating; one for me personally is putting too much pressure on a bar chord and shifting positions with it (index finger PIP joint). Another that comes to mind is shifting weird voicings or bending with index / middle finger (hyperextension of DIP joint).

One way or another, I would recommend dropping volume significantly, and slowly increase it only when symptoms resolve. There really isn’t another solution, and “forcing / playing through it” will make it significantly worse.

#6

I just linked these videos from memory so if there’s anything in there that strikes anyone as a bad idea, please don’t do it on the basis that I said so.

#7

Interesting thanks for the help I’ll try some of these but I’ll be careful for sure.
I tried to play some 3 note per string stretched pentatonic licks yesterday and my index finger and pinky are noticeably worse than usual this morning. Normally it seems like all the fingers are equally bad.

#8

I have been suffering all sorts of issues lately and found that provided I’m not doing anything stupid, most of my issues stem from things other than guitar - posture, hydration etc. Covid has meant a significant increase work for me resulting in a shit-load of computer time… not great.

Warm-ups are nice, but I found it really beneficial to do light stretches, massages and triggerpoint work after and between guitar sessions.

Wishing you a speedy and longlasting recovery!

#9

Thanks @Pepepicks66 I was thinking there must be some nutritional changes I can make to help but I’m not sure how much it will help. Reducing my playing will be hard but when I get a new job it will force the issue.

It’s hard to say which movements or actions are causing problems because it happens every day now and takes a night of sleeping for the problems to occur. The more I play though the worse it is the next day.

Also like I just said if I try more “athletic” licks or patterns like stretched 3 note per string pentatonics it seems to be worse.

I might try and just do some “lazy” playing today for an hour like just using my index and ring finger and see how it is tomorrow.

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#10

I wonder if instead of worrying about ‘improving your fitness’ you try to fret as lazily as possible!

Like, unless you have developing arthritis pain (again see a real honest to goodness doctor before taking any advice of anyone online) then my best guess is you’re probably over fretting and forcing effort into situations that do not actually require it.

Practicing being mindful of the force you’re applying when fretting will likely go further than trying to ‘strengthen’ muscles or tendons in your hand.

I’ve played scales where I try and make sure every note is dead muted on the strings and see how fast I can go maintaining that.

Next I’ll play so I get some buzz, JUST enough like you biffed the grip on a barre chord on the high strings when you first started playing :smiley:

Each of those should be super light touches, if you experiment long enough with that (play anything not just scales, just an example) and once you’re able to consistently play with the strings buzzing, increase it JUST enough so you fret the notes clean. I’d bet you’ll find you end up with reduced finger pain.

I know I mostly end up with stiff fingers when I’m learning something new and my bad habits kick back in and I try to saw through my frets so as to properly play the notes (like a brute)

Anyway, check with a pro doctor person that there isn’t some other underlying condition, then check back in with all your weirdo online friends :smiley:

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#11

Interesting @JB_Winnipeg thanks. I’ll try it.
I’ve been using a similar approach to picking trying to develop a fast action by picking the string as lightly as possible.

I guess also using lighter strings will help and maybe installing some jumbo frets. I can’t afford regretting any of my guitars at the moment though.

#12

Lots of good advice as expected thanks everyone now I’ve got a few things to try.

A visit to the doctor is unavoidable though. I’ll try and make an appointment which isn’t easy where I live, with covid restrictions in my local NHS doctor surgery, and it will probably end up taking weeks to happen as it’s not an “urgent” problem to them.

#13

Hello SlyVai,

All the above advice on stretching, and a slow warm-up, along with checking for potential issues with technique are great. Making sure not just the hands but the wrist, forearm, elbows, shoulders, etc feel relaxed and free of excess tension may be worthwhile as well. Adding something like tiger balm to your massage can be very effective.

I’m a medical herbalist, living in Scotland, and if there are issues such as osteoarthritis, or inflammation in joint, tendons, and contributing physiological concerns, then this can readily be addressed with a combination of nutrition, herbal medicine and supplements. The starting place is a low inflammatory diet (low in sugar, high in veg) - this is sometimes sufficient. A foundational protocol would include a high quality, curcumin supplement and glucosamine-chondroitin sulphate, along with a few herbs - usually Boswellia and Centella along with some circulatory stimulants. After that the recommendations need to be specific to the individual. However, if there are not other underlying contributors to the problem these may be sufficient. Let me know if you need for specific advice.

#14

Honestly if you’re injured don’t do stuff like that, ditch all those one finger per fret exercises, especially below the 7th fret…reduce your playing to the most effortless stuff you can do…like avoid chords for the moment and just have fun with two note per string lead playing, and work on your right hand alternate etc…avoid any stretching and move position instead…like others said, go to a doctor to rule out any “something else”…oh and if you drink, see if there’s any correlation there, if I have more than 4/5 cans my fingers are swollen when I wake up in the morning, and stay that way for a few hours…

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#15

@SlyVai I hadn’t noticed this one part until @simcc pointed it out:

So you’re stretching something like frets 5 - 8 - 10 / 5 - 7 - 10 or similar? That sounds very taxing on the fingers.

I’ve stuck to 4-fret boxes for quite some time now (e.g. frets 5 - 8) and tend to avoid 3 nps fingerings that require stretching (e.g. frets 5 - 7 - 9). I also tend to only play guitar when I feel decently “fresh” and don’t push myself close to fatigue. Not sure if it’s aging or doing so much additional finger stuff, but massive stretches like that just feel more tweaky without being necessary. This might not be what you want to hear, but I would strongly suggest cutting that out and backing off your overall volume until you feel symptoms subside.

#16

I’d be happy to try to help any way I can, but yes, I would need something to go off. @SlyVai, if you can post some video of your playing from different angles, I’ll be happy to take a look and let you know if there’s anything I could suggest.

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#17

Wow, thanks @fenrirokie,

I will take on some of that advice, for sure I know I need to eat more vegetables and less sugar, so I will make a dedicated effort to make that happen. My step-mom is looking into homeopathic remedies for me, I will mention what you said.

#18

Thanks to @Pepepicks66 and @simcc,
so it seems like the consensus is to stop doing stretches and avoid chords, which is really annoying as I was just getting good at 3NPS pentatonics, but hey I guess I can work on playing the same phrases and licks in 2NPS patterns instead and improve my picking some more.

I must admit I have been doing a lot of stretches lately, not just pentatonics but also weird add9 chords and low down 1-3-5 3NPS scale stuff.

I really need to work on being more careful when I play or I am going to have to stop playing all together for a while, because I’m just too impulsive , last night I thought I’ll just play for an hour without doing anything taxing, before I know it I’m doing a load of 3NPS pentatonic stuff again even though I knew I shouldn’t be, crazy fool ! :crazy_face:

#19

Hi @Tom_Gilroy ,
There’s a couple of videos that I did a while ago that might serve the purpose as they show a typical lick I would play. I’m sorry for the bad playing and terrible harmonics.

If you need more let me know I’ll do some tomorrow.

Thanks for offering to help.

#20

A bit late of a reply here, but I am in a very similar situation (even down to the unemployed status). Though my problem is more in my wrist and forearm than fingers, my fingers are definitely effected as well. I had to stop playing for months, consulted several doctors, but unfortunately never found anything that “cured” it. I just have to manage as best I can now.

Getting in better overall health did help a lot, but even after dropping 20lbs, walking 4 miles every day, and doing light lifting with dumbbells and resistance bands, I still have to be careful and pay close attention to what my arms and hands are telling me. If I play for an extended period, especially when trying to work on speed, I’ll start getting the pain, pins & needles, numbness, etc., and will have to take it easy for at least a day, usually a few, before really playing again. I am now also on pain killers, for better or worse. While they absolutely do help with eliminating pain itself, I wouldn’t recommend them, as they’re just a mask over whatever the problem really is and of course come with a host of other… problems.

Healthy anti-inflammatories can be really good in general, like curcumin as suggested by fenrirokie. Possibly CBD too. I even take ashwaganda. But… homeopathic stuff isn’t going to help you.

Here are some more youtube vids that offer good advice and some specific methods for stretching the fingers and warming up the joints, tendons, etc. in the hand and arms. I took a bit from each, and would like to think it makes a difference too. Most of them are more useful for preventing these kinds of injuries and repeated-motion stress pain than for “curing” a problem that is already there, but incorporating them into a routine may be a good idea:

Essential Hand Stretches For Guitarists or Any Instrumentalist

Guitar Yoga (My Secret To Lifelong, Pain-Free Playing)

[Oops, I had more links to a couple other helpful vids, but apparently new users can’t post more than 2 links in a message, so I had to edit them out.]

There was also another one I can’t seem to find that talked about the importance of stretching your neck before playing, and I always do that now. Nothing extreme, just turning your head to each side carefully, tilting it forwards and back, doing some easy rotations, etc. This is especially useful if your pain is related to a pinched nerve, which it sounds like is probably not the case for you, but maybe.

Anyway, I hope that’s somewhat helpful. At the very least, I can really commiserate - not being able to play due to pain f*ing sucks!