Finger joint swelling, advice please

Thanks for taking the time to post @Trav.

I’ve been trying to lay off playing this week, but it’s a real challenge and my fingers and hand are the same every morning, I can hardly move them. Only the fretting hand usually but I did notice that after doing some pretty intense tapping with my picking hand yesterday I had the same sort of pain in those fingers this morning.

I’ve ordered some Curcumin so I hope that will help and I’m taking steps to improve my diet. Funny it’s taken the possible threat of not being to play to make me take my diet seriously after years, just goes to show how much playing means to me again after years of not touching a guitar.

Those hand stretches look good I’ll be trying them out tomorrow for sure and I’ll try the neck stretching as well.

I’ll let you know if anything helps thanks for the advice.

I wonder if maybe as we get older our joints and muscles just can’t handle the fast widdly widdly stuff anymore.

I know there’s plenty of great players out there in their 50s and 60s who seem to be able to do it and I’m only mid 40s, but I think of Vai and PG who seem to of dropped the crazy fast stretching licks as they got older and wonder if it’s an artistic choice or something they dropped because their hands are getting too old.

I’ve started having that issue as well, and staying hydrated and stretching my fingers and hands like Frank Bello does it (watch the part of the video below at the 8-minute mark and skip the beer warm-up) helped a lot.


Also, it may or may not have something to do with your neck posture, so do some exercises to keep your neck and shoulders from being hunched and keep proper posture in mind when practicing/playing.

Thanks for the advice dude.

I’ve started doing finger and neck stretches this week and I’ll try some of those Frank Bello stretches.

I really scaled back the playing time past few days. I didn’t play at all yesterday just to give my fingers a break and my hand and fingers were a lot better when I woke up this morning. I was able to play freely this afternoon with no real pain too.

I’ll see how it is tomorrow anyway.

Hope your fingers continue to be ok. Keep us posted so we can share solutions going forward, thanks.

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Hi, all. I thought I’d add a little to the mix.

Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with locked fingers and hand pain. I have had a number of physical therapists and chiropractors. I have back issues which have near crippled me on occasion. And I’m told I have arthritis in my neck.

But the hand stuff is pretty terrible. I have a neck traction and also an anti-gravity table. The anti-gravity table is fantastic by the way. The neck traction is also great – very quick and instant relief. I’ve been considering practicing the anti-gravity lick on the anti-gravity table. … Perhaps next year.

Anyway, I can recommend some things that have helped me. Even though I describe myself with all the painful stuff, there have been times, sometimes extended times, when all was well and I could say “what pain?”

So, let me start. And I’m saying this to you in my best “Kemo” Edward James Olmos voice from the movie “Stand and Deliver” (great movie):

Think… cool. You might try cooling your hands a little, not a lot. All the suggestions are “a little”, and never “a lot”. Hands in some cool water for a short period of time. See if that feels better. You could also try warm water for a brief period of time. Does it help?

Think… friends. Why bend a string with just one lonely finger, when it’s more fun and easier to invite a friend (finger) to come help, and bend with two fingers. It could be a party and you could bend a string with 3 fingers. And for now, the party might have to wait, because bending strings is what your hands might be complaining about. (Guthrie Govan has great videos on string bending and avoiding pain)

Think… up. If you play sitting down, why not change, put a strap on, and stand up and play. Standing tall, with your guitar in a position that your hands would really like. Fretboard perpendicular to the floor. The back is intimately tied to your hands. And it always appreciates being straight up and down. It might let you know that it likes it in a good way. It could communicate its happiness through your hands. This happens with me. Even just sitting up straight and playing. Yeah, I know. And if you normally play sitting down, try another chair. Remove your shoes. If you sit on something soft, try firm. If you sit on something firm, try soft.

Think… unplugged. Try turning the amp off and unplugging the guitar. Really unplug it. Quiet the room you’re in so you can hear yourself breathing. Play like you normally would. You’ll be able to hear it. Then gradually, start playing softer and softer until you can hardly hear it. There is a really good chance that the hands will soften also. Soft sounds, soft hands. I do this a lot. Pain disappears. Very cool.

Think… small. No need to ask hurting hands to stretch on anything lower than the 10th fret. Play where the small spaces are … the easy stretches. See if your hands hurt after doing the usual lick but 8 frets higher.

Think …everything. We use our hands for other things besides guitar. Develop an awareness. What am I doing with my hands. It might be automatic. May not be noticeable until you really start looking. Are they tensing up even without playing? Do you sit on your hands. Lean a lot? Write a lot? Use the computer keyboard a lot? Computers are a great cause of hand pain… and weak stomachs and bad backs. Do you play video games? Do you use your hands there? How do you use them. Become aware of what your hands and back and shoulders and legs are doing. Look up the word “ergonomics” on an internet search. There is a lot that is under your control. All you need to do is get up to speed on that subject. (pun intended).

I used to never listen to my body. At all. But pain is a very powerful persuader. Especially back pain. But hand pain is right up there, too.

I hope any of my suggestions help. I find it best (and hardest) to do something that is different. Change is hard. Impulses have a power all their own and they are very controlling. Like Todd Rundgren said “Something! Anything!”. Becoming aware is a great first step.

Good luck

Catmandu

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Wow thanks @Catmandu, a lot of good tips and information there.

A couple of things stand out, regarding adopting our playing techniques to accommodate our weary joints. Like using two or more fingers to bend, avoiding stretches and playing softly.

I’m definitely becoming more aware that these techniques will have a big impact. Bends and stretches certainly cause pain in my fingers and it’s making me try to change. Like you said, awareness is the most important thing here.

Someone else on this thread suggested that I should try to soften my grip on my fretting hand, really try to press the strings as little as possible. I haven’t worked on this yet but I do intend to, so good advice there on how to go about it,

Thanks for taking the time to put the post together, I hope other players will also find it helpful and I’ll update this thread when I’ve got something to update you on.

Edit: and Welcome to the CtC community and forum @Catmandu !

These are all some great ideas. Two more things worth considering:

1 - Sometimes with skeletal muscle issues, wether it be muscles, connective tissue, etc. What is required is a total rest from the repetitive motion that most sets them off. Unfortunately two weeks won’t be enough in most cases. You need time for the cartilage to repair (which it will with the right nutrition and herbs), the inflammatory cycle to be broken, and the tension in the muscles and connective tissue to release. (The hydrotherapy suggestions are great - like alternating hot/cold hand baths), massage, etc. If you have deeply entrenched habits in your muscle usage, posture, etc these can also take time to release. Consider acupuncture or osteopathy to support this. Tension in. the muscles as well as posture often have emotions associated with them and these are worth inquiring into. For me playing guitar provides, amongst other things, an emotional outlet, so if I’m holding an emotion (say frustration) unconsciously all day and not releasing it till I play guitar then it will be tension that is present while I"m playing. It may release with the music but it may not - you may adapt your technique around the tension - or just ignore the discomfort. (I do all these things myself!).

2 - Use the opportunity of limitation to improv your musicianship. Maybe study theory, rhythm/percussion, konakol, singing, harmonica.

Hi @fenrirokie,

Thanks for putting the time in to write the post.

I’ve been trying to lay off playing and it has helped when I’ve managed to not play for days in a row, but the problem is still there the morning after playing and maybe its worse as I’m getting weird sensations.

I will have to stop playing for some time and monitor it so thanks for the tips and advice. I was thinking about improving my music theory knowledge so I could do that while I’m on hiatus.

What is your other job? Are you using your hands for something other than guitar, and possibly just over working them? I have a similar problem with my back, pain wont go away. I am trying fish oil, more than usual calcium intake, and this lying on your back leg raise arm raise ab work out. I feel your pain, but we dont get younger. Haha! I would say work on getting your licks and ideas up to a more manageable tempo, stop pressing the throttle, and maybe 3 times a week devote 20 minutes to speed training. I think as others have said in here, best to seek advice from a real doctor. Most music is going electronic, buy you the baddest analog bass synthesizer, very affordable and create some of that autoplay techno psytrance music. :yum:

The way you sleep may also be a contributing factor. For a good while I was suffering with pinched nerves in my neck and elbow which came with awful sore and stiff stiff hands in the morning. I started to notice I was waking up a few times in the night with dead arm/hand where I had been putting my hands above my head when I sleep. Its hard to stop, but I found wearing a wrist strap when I slept extremely helpful as for some reason it stopped me sleeping in weird positions.

I’m not saying the straps will help you specifically, but if your arms and hands are not getting recovery time at sleep, then its going to be hard to fix them.

Hi guys thanks for the advice it’s much appreciated.

To answer your questions:

I am a software engineer, but I’m out of work currently so I’m not really doing any intensive keyboard work, not since I started playing guitar again anyway. I did have problems before with my right hand and wrist where I was using the mouse a lot and i even had weird calasses and bumps but they’ve gone after I stopped working.

I don’t really want to stop playing guitar as I’ve rediscovered my passion for it during the past 6 months or so.

I’ll try and do some of this lying on my back and raising arms in the air thing you mentioned. I do get a very stiff neck in the morning I expect that could help it.

Well you might be onto something there, I was thinking the same thing. I do have a bad habit of falling asleep watching TV and I do also find that I have a stiff neck in the morning and sometimes numbness in my feet and arms if I’ve been in the same position all night.

This is a bad habit that I’ve had for a long time, years maybe, but the finger joint pain and stiffness only came after I started playing hard again so I didn’t think that my sleeping position was a cause. I’ll try and be more aware of that now and see if I can force myself to sleep in a better position.

What I’m thinking is that I need to do a few things to remedy the problem or help to improve it:

  • Eat healthier. Goes without saying but we can’t expect our bodies to continue working perfectly if we don’t give them the right nutrients.
  • Take nutritional and vitamin supplements. I’ve started taking Krill Oil, Curcumin and I was already taking magnesium and vitamin D3.
  • Try and decist from playing at all until my fingers feel better. That’s hard.
  • If I am going to play, make sure I spend some time to do some stretches and some gentle warmups.
  • Bathe my hand in hot and cold water in the morning when it’s worst.
  • If I do play be careful and dont use my pinky or do any stretches and very fast movements and avoid bending. This is achievable if I really concentrate but sometimes I’ll find myself just going off on a tangent and trying to play crazy Vai stuff without thinking about it.
  • Get out of my bad sleeping position habit.

What I have found is that if I limit myself to simple pentatonic shapes just using my index and ring finger it’s fine, and I can still work on my picking technique using those patterns. It is limiting but it’s better than nothing ! It’s just so hard to stop myself from doing any of the things I mentioned above sometimes.

Of course when I’m doing bends or stretching I do get the pain, at least for a the first few times so that’s a good alert or alarm but…I’ve got quite good at playing through the pain as well. I just don’t want to stop playing completely it would be hard.

I did manage to decist from playing today and everyone says I should stop playing for a month to let my joints get better. That’s what I’m trying to do but it’s not going very well.

Dude perfect time to really analyze your favorite players. Sit back, slow that speed way back, learn it all slowed way up for a month while it all heals. But this might put fuel in the fire and tempt you to speed things up. :sweat_smile:

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Just a quick update on this in case someone else has the same problem and is interested. My fingers are still bad but not as bad as before I think.

I put this down to 4 things, so it’s not a very scientific result but I suspect they all are playing their part:

  1. Krill oil. Expensive and smells gross but I’ve been taking 1000 mg a day for 3 weeks.
  2. Curcumin. Taking this every day as well for 3 or 4 weeks.
  3. Eating more fresh veg and drinking a lot more water and orange juice to stay well hydrated.
  4. Adjusting my sleeping position, coincidentally I now get a similar problem in my left knee and I’m sure it’s because of it being in a bent position during sleep.

Now a lot of people told me to stop playing until it was better, and if any of you have seen I’ve been active on this forum and not really done that at all, it was too hard, I tried, I’ve just got no will power I guess :slight_smile:

So the improvement has not been influenced by playing time, although I have taken 2 or 3 days off now and then to try the abstinence thing, but past week I’ve been playing hard every day and it’s really only this week I’ve felt the improvement.

So good results so far but the joints are still swollen every morning, just not as bad it seems.

Thanks to everyone that gave advice and I’ll keep you posted.

Edit: I forgot to mention as well that I’ve been doing arm and back stretches almost every day and giving my hand hot and cold baths when I remember, so that adds to the complication of what is working or not.

I guess I could do a logical scientific experiment and try one thing at a time month by month but I don’t think Ive got the will power for that. I’m just throwing everything at it and something seems to be working.

Honestly, and it may seem a bit overly cautious, but it never hurts to schedule a visit with your pcp to rule out any more serious underlying causes. I know that taking a naturopathic road can seem very attractive, but what may seem like mild edema in the hands, or stiffness in the joints can be indicative of a number of things, some very serious, some not, and the sooner you get a jump on them if it does turn out to be more serious, the better. Just my .02.

Yeh you’re right I’ve got an appointment booked with my doctor next week, it just took a while to come around because they rightly don’t see it as a priority serious problem, so I had to wait for the next free general appointment which are booked up weeks in advance currently.

I’ll update on the diagnosis for what it’s worth.

Good man! And honestly it’s likely nothing serious unless you have a family history of heart or kidney issues, but it never hurts to go in, especially for something that seems to be more chronic at this point and without direct causation, rather than an acute occurrence.

Honestly I would change your strings to 8s or 9s. I was having some issues with pain in the ring finger of my left hand and I switched to 8s a few months ago and I’ve been pain free ever since. They don’t sound as fat, but they make guitar playing so much easier that it’s worth the trade off.

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I’m definitely doing that @aliendough, thanks, I’m on hybrids currently because I was so used to heavy bottom skinny tops but I will go to standard 9s and then maybe to 8s.

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Sounds like you are on the right track. These issues require persistence - the body doesn’t heal in a day (week, etc). The body is a complex system and therefore more often than not requires a complex treatment - very few health issues respond to a single treatment but instead require a collaborative and synergistic blend of interventions . As in music the whole is greater then the sum of the parts (think of every truly brilliant band on the planet - Pink Floyd comes to mind first for me).

Hi @fenrirokie,

yes, my hand and fingers do seem better. I am refraining from playing for a few days a week to try and help things too, but in general my fingers feel stronger and not so swollen, so many thanks for your advice.

The doctor didn’t help much, he said I am doing the right things and it’s likely early Osteoarthritis so I have to make sure I keep doing the right things to prevent it from getting worse. I’m a little young to get it he says, but it’s likely due to my unhealthy lifestyle over the years. The main thing is to put the right things into my mouth, the right food and the vitamins, krill oil and curcumin and magnesium pills I take every day now.

That’s a bummer. Did he do any imaging, or just suspect it?