How hard to hold pick

Playing Technique
#1

Hi All,

I’ve decided to seriously revamp my picking technique this year (bad string hopper for years),
and will be posting occasionally as I go through the journey towards improvement.

I’ve started with lightly supinated USX wrist motion, which feels new / unfamilar to me so far.
As I work on this new mechanic, one thing that is not clear from the pickslanting primer is
how hard to hold the pick. I am mixing it up between trigger finger / sidepad / three finger grips to
keep it fresh as I practice.

Troy, when you are playing fast lines in the pickslanting primer videos — is your pick
held super loose? I can only get a smooth motion when I have a very loose grip on the pick.
If I hold it tighter I get a lot of “bounce” when the very tip of the pick strikes the string (even with pickslant + edge picking).

Thanks for the help.

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#2

Good question, something I’m experimenting with as well. Welcome :slight_smile:

#3

I would say quite loose. You can tell from the amount of grip flop, or movement of the pick itself between the thumb and finger when it hits the string on some of Troy’s and EJ’s slow motion videos.

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#4

I probably never death grip it. But I do modulate the amount of force. As @JonnyL points out, the operative concept is flop. This when the pick moves around in your grip. Most great players can modulate this to increase or decrease the feeling of attack. They’re not generally locked in to one level of flop or another.

For example, when I use a heavier pick and I want to play softly, I will increase flop (i.e. loosen up) as part of that. Because something like a 1.4mm Jazz III XL is a lot of pick, even with the point, and can sound pretty ungraceful otherwise, particularly on clean tone.

Lots of factors influence flop. When you leave only a tiny amount of pick exposed in your grip, this is going to give you less flop control. With so much of the pick braced by the fingers, especially with a large pick like an XL, you’re going to hit that string pretty hard, even if you try to hold the pick more loosely. So more pick sticking out gives you more range of flop control.

This is a cool subject where better data on grip force and the actual amount of flop would be useful. I’m sure most players fall in some kind of common band of both. Until then, I’d suggest just keeping in mind that some amount of flop is probably the most common approach, as is modulating that amount per the attack you’re looking for.

If you feel like you simply can’t play at all without holding the pick very loosely, then I’d look into why that is. In this clip, for example, when I played this, it felt like I was holding the pick pretty solidly:

I wasn’t specifically aware of allowing for flop. However, when watching it back in slow motion, you can see the flop pretty clearly when the pick hits the string on certain notes. So you shouldn’t feel like you are locked in to using only the loosest possible grip. You should feel like you have a range of attack possibility.

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#5

Hi Troy,

This is super helpful information — excellent response.

As I relearn how to pick, I’ll allow for a wide range of “flop”.
This would be a super cool topic to cover in the pinkslanting primer at some point.

More updates to follow. Thanks.

#6

We do address flop a little bit in pick design. I think it’s in the “angle of attack” chapter. Then I filmed another thing for the “pick grip” section but never got a chance to edit it, one thing leading to another and now all this crazy stuff.

But yes, a core concept and needs to be addressed!

1 Like
#7

I have always felt like I was going to drop my pick. This caused me to change my grip many times and especially since finding Troy’s teachings. But no matter how much pick slant I used (I naturally have a lot of downward slant) and pick angling I used, everything still always felt very clunky and out of control.

One day recently I decided to try an exercise to get over the feeling that I was going to drop the pick and so I held it very loose. The result is this “pick flop” that NOBODY talks about, and it changed everything for me.

The feeling of the pick giving way a bit gave me a way more smooth feeling and has made a huge difference in what I think I can do on guitar. In short it was definitely something that changed everything for me.

Troy I hope you cover this topic more because I guarantee there are others out there that are holding the pick too tight because they have been told to do that. The best information out there is “hold it loose enough do you don’t get tense but not so loose that it moves in your fingers”.

After my discovery I think this is wrong. I think the pick can absolutely move a bit and help many people get the feeling of smoothness.

I wasn’t even holding it “tight” before but it definitely was not giving on my fingers at all and never felt good to pick. Pick flop for the win if you ask me.

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#8

I think it kinda varies across styles as well, Anton Oparin is all about heavy attack and keeping the pick pretty firm, arguing that flop creates inconsistency in picking. But he’s an incredible alternate picker.

Rick Graham allows for some flop and also incorporates a lot of circular picking/thumb assistance in pushing the pick through the strings to control attack. He’s also an incredible alternate picker (you can find him alternate picking the Glass Prison arpeggios at speed so he has an effective cross picking motion for sure), but prefers economy and incorporating more legato.

I personally tried both ways, and depending on the run, I may or may not keep the pick pretty stiff or kind of loose as Troy mentions above, usually I do that by bending my thumb/index so more of the pick is gripped and when I loosen that grip more of the pick is exposed, increasing the flop. I also have been trying to incorporate more grip control in general, circular picking is useful and using the thumb to push through on economy playing is also useful for more control.

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#9

Back when I was talking with a bunch of guys trying to master Benson picking (-I did NOT master it), the Fender Medium was the preferred pick because it had some “flex” in it. (We didn’t use the term “flop” then.)
One thing I did come away with is the realization that with a pad-to-pad grip and a locked thumb, the pick need not be gripped tightly at all. It’s a very relaxed grip and the wrist is relaxed too.
I had trouble generating the speed I wanted. (This was no fault of the “Benson picking” approach—it was all User Error.)
As a result, I never grip the pick firmly anymore. There’s no need. However, I had it when the pick “turns around” while I’m playing. But for me, that’s less a matter of grip strength than of pick motion. When I realized my primary motion, I was able to adjust the pick (=very slight adjustment) so that I wasn’t gripping hard AND the pick didn’t move around while I played.

#10

If you play with a stiff pick, you’ll probably hold it loosely. A medium or light pick you can grip firmly and the pick will flex. I prefer a Fender 351 Medium because I can vary the tone, I can’t stand the clickety noise when playing with high gain on the bridge pickup, and it was the choice of both George Benson and SRV.

#11

Holding the pick too tightly just brings on more tension which you don’t want or need. Hold it more loosely.

#12

As loose as you can while still holding on to it. Picking (and fretting) should feel effortless and smooth.