Hybrid picking - The finger of dooooom!

Playing Technique
#1

Okay, so now that I lured y’all into my thread, here’s my question/statement. Any thoughts are welcome of course…

So when doing the swybrid thing, or hybrid I notice that the “fingers” part of it is a bit ummm, clunky. Not necessarily slow, but noticeably clunky. Kind of like hitting a speed bump too fast… It makes for a sort of rhythmic accent that I’d like to get better control of.

I am thinking that I have habitually trained myself over the course of several decades to use “too much finger” but who knows. I taught myself, so that’s likely the problem! hahaha

But what do you guys do? Thoughts, recommendations?

#2

Marshall Harrison!!! :slight_smile: Joking aside, if you watch what he does closely, do you notice anything different about the way he plucks than what you’re doing?

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#3

Well, my first observation is that he’s bloody awesome, totally smooth - his stuff is seamless! What he does is where i’d like to be actually. Hmmm maybe I’ll post a clip.

#4

Actually, I noticed that when I normally play my “picking only” stuff, I am pronated and DSX, Buuuut when I hybrid pick, I am supinated and USX. Weird. I wonder why I would do that? lol

#5

Dunno! Oddly I have found the opposite and it is difficult for me to do hybrid any way that isn’t pronated. I think in my case it may be all the years of classical practice as the setup in that world is a little pronated. I haven’t watched Marshall in a while. What do we call his setup? Hard to see here but around 2 minute mark he starts going nuclear meltdown speeds

Maybe it’s sort of flat?

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#6

Okay so he looks supinated to me, and it also looks like USX for the most part (is that accurate?) - in that bit where he picks the PG lick at first his hand does a quick roll from supinated to pronated, but although it’s doable, I think it’s inefficient. When he swybrids that sucker it’s insane - i am thinking he is just glancing the plucked note whereas i am stopping for a second to remove all of the inards out of it lol… Watching myself do it, and then Marshall, I see there’s more than a few points that I need to address lol I don’t suck, but sweet jesus is he good!

Thanks, Joe!

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#7

Sorry to butt in here, but OMG look at his cover of Paganini’s 5th Caprice! I need to get one or more of his books. And he has put some of my favorites into TAB as well,

https://www.swybryd-nation.com

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#8

I’ve grown to really like hybrid as of late. Descending sweeps come easier to me which helps with Swybryd. Using hybrid plucks while ascending is still a challenge for me though, as well as initiating a lick with a pluck followed by a pick stroke. Ian Thornley of Big Wreck also does a fair share of hybrid picking. I will find some video examples in the morning

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#9

Sharing Marshal with a Jason Becker guitar is a like by default :stuck_out_tongue:

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#10

Bit of an aside, but I saw Big Wreck open for Dream Theater at a tiny club in NY 25 years ago (time flies). Ian is the total package - great chops, great voice, great songwriting.

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#11

Nice! Yeah I just saw him (big wreck) live in NYC beginning of the month. Killer show

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#12

I think if I watch the clip I posted in slow motion I see him do a really subtle twist after the upstrokes sweeps, helping clear the B string. That twist to me indicates he’s not in a USX posture here but it’s a ‘helper’. The main picked portion is either DSX or trapped, which is why he can do the upstroke sweep easily. If it were USX he’s miss the b string on the sweep.

I rewatched Troy’s analysis and he never really says USX or DSX but mentions the flat setup. I think the flat setup is what Troy refers to as “lightly supinated” and we’ve seen people do either escape from that posture.

Also, here’s a clip of him doing the classic fingering of the Gilbert pattern, still using a plucked note (no sweeping though)

#13

Oh yeah, Marshall is disgustingly good. His technique is unreal even before he utilizes swybrid. Awesome player!

#14

Thanks for the reply, Joe! I am a bit confused on the “trapped” portion my man, if it’s trapped that means it’s under the strings and it has to get out? Seems like a disadvantage to me lol but keep in mind, I am still learning all of the definitions…

Another kind of contradiction because I know that I am a DSX player, but I can sweep in either direction (not that I am any good at either)… Certain situations sometimes involving either an upward or a downward sweep can be problematic or extremely fluid, and honestly smaller downstroke sweeps seem to be the biggest and most consistent pain in the butt for me. Certainly, my hand posture does change for these moves so perhaps that might be a factor, but one thing is for sure - the swybrid pluck happens 90% (lol not factual numbers) of the time after an upstroke, so by my math that means that a USX player would have the advantage, yes? I notice that when I am having better swybrid success it seems to be in a more supinated hand position, and I am USX’ing for that moment? Or is Marshall like Frank Gambale, and he kind of “leans into the corners/turns” when he plays? Frank’s system of odds when moving and evens when changing direction could influence that perhaps?

Then again, I am usually wrong about everything so I can’t speak with any confidence about this heh all input welcome!

#15

I tend to think it works better with DSX, it’s only ever combined with an upstroke sweep as well which would make sense with DSX!

As your upstrokes are trapped with DSX swybryd gives you an extra escape hatch with the plucked note. With USX your upstrokes already escape so it doesn’t seem like it would be quite as useful :thinking:

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#16

Welp! Thanks for the info, good to know - I am wrong once again :grinning:- I am thinking that whenever I do a thing that perhaps I just start out by doing the exact opposite of what it is that I think I should do. Thanks, guys. I won’t waste any more time on this - just another thing I can’t do, I’ll stick to what works.

edit - Here’s an example of what I’m going through I’m not to sure how to fix it… (hahah funny crash and burn, yes?)

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#17

Yeah for DSX or USX the pick is either “trapped” between two strings and close to the guitar body, or “free,” far away from the guitar body and able to descend to any string. When the pick is “trapped,” it can sweep to one of the two adjoining strings (unless one has a lot of pick slant; in that case, it can only sweep in one direction).

I don’t understand Swybrid yet, but it seems that a finger pluck would be of use when the pick is “free” and one doesn’t want to get it “trapped” in a distant location without a clear second note for it to hit: that’s the perfect use of a pluck, to nail that isolated (in terms of location) note. I wonder, is that right? :thinking: Somebody kindly correct me! :grinning:

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#18

Oh all I meant was in this particular lick, you only need one stroke that escapes (sort of). The very first note is an upstroke, followed by the pluck then you have to change strings vis USX. Granted, the pluck buys you time so you could even ‘hop’ there and get away with it. I think Marshall uses an efficient “flick” to get there. All the other notes in the lick, you can be totally trapped and it’s fine. In trapped playing you can burn on one string and you can also do economy. And that’s what the majority of that lick is.

Since that first note is the one where we (sort of) need USX, and to me it’s clear Marshall has a helper motion there, I was just saying it could be easier to keep a trapped trajectory for the rest of the lick. What’s easier, staying DSX for the whole lick and occasionally doing that USX helper, OR staying trapped for the whole lick and occasionally doing the USX helper? To me the latter because there’s less adjustment to make.

That’s all just sort of theory of what “might” be going on, or a way that someone “might” play that lick. And sorry I’m sure I’ve explained it poorly both initially and also right here.

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#19

All good my man - I am dense AF sometimes, so sometimes I can’t see the forest for the trees! Thanks so much for your reply and the insight contained! I may not give up on it just yet, I wonder if maybe I am using too much of my finger and not enough of the residual wrist action…?

#20

Sorry dude all I hear there is tons of great starts! I don’t know if anything’s ‘wrong’. I’ll try to watch it more closely tomorrow and see if anything jumps out but you had plenty of great phrases in there. Maybe it just needs more time? The PG lick at the end started off totally blazing!!! Keep it up!

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