Is this a good DSX technique ? How to Learn Two-Way Pick. and What Motion to use in Outside Pick. (Solved !)

Hi, as topic says i’m somewhat unsure of my technique, i have feeling that i’m missing something. Plus, i’m unable to use wrist motions, i can Play with elbow so USX is pretty impossible for me. Should i try to learn elbow USX or learn to change motions from elbow to wrist while playing two way picklanting ? Thanks and cheers
Edit, i made a typo in video title, It should be DSX i think. I’m little disoriented cause i’m used to pickslanting and not escape motions


Hey this looks/sounds awesome!

I only had a brief look but it seems you are not doing “just elbow”, and I think I see wrist and/or forearm motions.

In any case it seems to work super! so what’s the concern? :slight_smile:

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Thanks for this words, i rarely hear anything good about my playing but maybe that’s why i’m devoted to have “perfect” technique. Thing is i feel tension in fretting hand and that’s why i’m unsure about it, another thing is how can i learn to play downward pickslant using my motions to connect them into two way pickslanting.

Your technique is looking really good here.
I can’t say for certain with the camera angle, but I think I see wrist motion in there? and also some forearm as Tommo mentioned already.

Also, check out the picking primer, the section on primary plus secondary motion in particular. Elbow players like Vinnie Moore use a secondary motion to change strings after an upstroke. I think with elbow technique, that usually involves a bit of forearm rotation, but, with this sort of thing, I think it’s recommended to start at speed, around 150bpm 16th’s, or whatever is a moderately fast speed for you where it’s not tense and where you are not micromanaging every motion.

So I’d say have a look at that section in the primer if you haven’t already and also take a look at the starting with speed section also. Just to make sure you understand why you should start with speed.

Technique is looking very good though from what I can see!


It seems i have to subscribe and dive into It once again, tension thing in fretting hand is WIP, I think it’s bad habit of stretching my thump back when i play fast and it seems to affect endurance. I feel no speed limit in both hands but i can shred for maybe 30/40sec before my hand wants to “fall off” my body.

With picking hand however i can play everything DSX with ease but i feel limited in improv, i don’t want to play patterns like sixes because it’s not the sound i’m after. USX is impossible with my pick grip and using elbow, i’ve developed some way of two way pickslant but:

A) Orientation of pick changes only for string change, on next string i’m still DSX.

B) I can do It only ascending, descending it’s hard for me to do string changes with fluid motion

I Hope it makes sense, i was never good at picking. I was always legato player but 11 months ago everything changed when i severely broke bone in elbow and some muscles teared up with it, i was going to have operation and it didn’t looked good back then. Having only picking hand at disposal i discovered cracking the code and i began to work on my picking, it made me a better than ever and weirdly i’m glad that i broke my elbow :smile:

I’l try to get my “two way picklanting” on camera and i’l report back here to see if we can sort this out, thanks again @tommo and @jptk for helping me and thanks to @Troy for amazing content that transformed my playing !

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Hey, just to clarify, “two way pickslanting” isn’t a term used here anymore as it was sort of misinterpreted as having to turn and slant the pick in exaggerated ways.

With elbow DSX, it’s likely you would only be using a forearm rotation, or whatever turns out to be your “secondary motion”, just for that one note that you need to change string after an upstroke.
This is why it’s important to understand the “primary plus secondary motion” concept, which sort of replaces the idea of two way pickslanting, or is a more thorough explanation of what needs to happen depending on your primary motion.

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Well, if that’s the case than maybe i’m on good track, now it all makes sense. I was worried that i have to learn USX on the same level as DSX to combine them together but now all i have to do is clean up my ascending run and figure out good motion to descend

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I just watched “Pepsi and Picking” and in fact i’m already using Vinnie style motion even in video above to ascend scale, UDU rotate DUD, it’s the third string change that’s funking with me…

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Exactly, you don’t need to learn ALL the motions! You just need a system (or a couple of systems) that solves the mechanical challenges you are facing in the music you want to play, For most “shred-rock” guitarists, this system consists of a primary motion (say DSX) which you’ll use most of the time, plus a secondary motion which is only used for these string changes that are not working with the primary.

I could write a long list of players who use this method: Vinnie Moore, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, etc!

Also, it seems you are overly critical of your own playing! In the bigger picture you sound great! In my opinion you already are at a high level such that what matters most is the actual music you play, you stylistic choices, intonation, phrasing, vibrato etc.

Long story short: you sound great, time to play some songs :slight_smile:


Thanks for amazing response ! Actually i’m also trying to get shred into pocket because look here at my Improv, when i’m thinking with music only i hear when i want to put some runs but when feeling takes over my hand becomes more tense and as you can see i have latency in my fingers before or after those speedy runs.


Great playing here @VanRaven! I love your use of bendings and the whammy bar!

Are you saying that you are not happy with the timing of your fast runs and / or the tension in the fretting hand?

For the timing, I think a slow blues can be a difficult track to work on this, because the drum beats are so slow and sparse. And in this style it’s probably not a big deal if the fast playing is not “on the grid”, provided the slower melodic parts have groove :slight_smile:

Maybe you can check how you are doing with a more rock / uptempo backing track, where the “grid” for the fast notes will feel more obvious.

RE: fretting hand tension, i think you’ll find this useful :slight_smile:


That’s some great playing man! Nice phrasing and whammy bar use!

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@VanRaven if I could play that well, I’d be done with learning.

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Wow… This is really heartwarming to read :heart: after 10 years of hard practice i think i’m ready and it’s time to get out There and finally make music ! Thank you guys for helping me out :grinning: if you liked it, please share it to help me grow. I want to make primarly teaching and improv videos, for example how to use pentatonic scales to navigate through chord changes and outline them like in improv above.

@tommo I Cracked the code ! I found motion to play fast and fluid outside picking… It’s my thump :smile:
I want to get that on camera and bring it to the forum, also thanks for left hand video’s ! I’m already implementing them.

@wintoid There is never enough amount of guitar knowledge ! I’m 24 and feel excited to think where can i be in next 10 years, now that i have basics almost done i can finally learn and understand Jazz and Fusion

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