Mechanical solutions for YYZ's riff?

Playing Technique
#1

Hi all!

So, I’ve been applying a lot of the things I’ve learned here to my repertoir and when I played YYZ I noticed that something is lacking when doing this passage repeatidly:

YYZ RIFF

The thing that always gets me is the “one note per string” (F# to A) passage; it becomes very tiresome after a while and I can’t be precise all the way through. And in the riff’s second part (which is pretty much a mirror lick just on another fret position), it’s hard not to tangle the picking at the end:

YYZ RIFF COMPLETO
YYZ RIFF COMPLETO931×420 11.8 KB

I understand this part isn’t very clean in the original recording, but I’d like to be able to do so.

When I have the time, I’ll update the thread with a video of my playing, but I’d like to see what would be your strategies.

I add that this thread might be in the wrong category, so I antecipate my apologies if that’s the case.

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#2

I would just re-finger this. At these speeds you can easily position shift. So you’d put the As and F#s on the same string to avoid the awkward single-note on the G string, in the notation in the OP, and go from there.

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#3

My issue with that is the tone. The A in the G string sounds more “convincing”.

Also, if the original version has an akward feel in the right hand, changing “F#” and “A” to one string causes the left-hand to do much more work. A minor third followed by a chromatic passage feels weird as well.

#5

play it ‘double escape’ - you need to be able to play the A to F# cross string repeatedly at speed, so i would just drill that string change

also worth trying: starting on an upstroke so the string crossing is inside picking, or just economy picking the whole thing

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#6

“Double escape” is what got me most further - it’s the approach that feels the most comfortable so far, although I still can’t get up to tempo (when I decide to speed up, I stress my wrist and arm and start to string hop). BUT I am using ‘outside picking’ for crossing the strings. I think you might be on to something, friend. Starting with upstrokes might be the key.

#7

In these situations it can be really helpful to look at what the player themselves is actually doing:

The motion is clearly DSX wrist / fingers, especially for any continuous fast picking. This basically the Al Di Meola / McLaughlin motion. In this closeup he’s not picking the second note on the G string, and he may or may not even be doing the outside picking, instead just picking all the notes on the D string even while fretting the G.

The net result? All string changes occur during downstrokes, as you would expect for this picking motion.

The closeup at 8:53 is for the second half of the riff and it looks like same:

I don’t know what he did on the album, but what he’s doing now is just making everything be DSX whether or not it wants to. Honestly, this is what Al Di Meola does in “Race With The Devil”, there don’t appear to be any motions in that other that his usual DSX wrist motion, and of course in Al’s case we know there is swiping when necessary which is maybe (probably?) the case here too.

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#8

I finally got the time to record a bit of my progress. For now, I’m still using outside picking for changing between the A and the F#.

The result is not what I aim: I want it to sound clean with a very effortless sounding string change.

Dynamics should have less peaks as well: only in the beginning and by the end. The chromatic passage should be more precise also (I guess that’s a left hand problem).

I add that wasn’t playing fully comfortable because I had to use a mirror to get a better angle on camera.

Thoughts? Thanks for all the answers so far.

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#9

Awesome job!

Are you using strictly wrist for your picking movements?

Did you pick this picking mechanic purposefully or just because it comes natural to You?

#10

Yes, this is mainly a wrist-type movement.

It’s pretty much what came natural to me - which is pretty similar to Lifeson’s way - but I’ve made some changes here and there.

For example, my movement is much more economical now than when I started. Also, the A notes in the beggining used to be played with a downward slant and then the rest with a upward angle - I liked the sound but was hard to do the string changes (those with one note per string) in 141 bpm. Now, I’m starting with a double escaped path and it feels a bit better.

Thank you! I’m still not happy with it though. Planning on recording another take today.

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#11

So, the movement came naturally to You, but you have been improving it and now it’s being improved constantly.

I have realized that is what works for acquiring a new technique. To start with it and optimize it on the go.

As for me, it’s what allows to move from the theory to the skill itself.

Double escaped movements are certainly worth having.

Looking forward to it!

#12

I’m trying to consciously do kind of a 2wps wrist rotation, but I don’t know if I’m getting that or if it’s more of a DBX/crosspicking.

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#13

Now we’re talking! Great tone!

Playing with 2wps was my main way at first, but I couldn’t get fast enough when playing along the song. Perhaps I got the same results you mention - tried to be more linear and ended up with a crosspicking type of movement. By the way, what is the speed there?

The thing is, it’s really hard to play the chromatic passage right after the one note per string change: easy to scramble the left hand fingers and the pick can easily hit other strings creating unwanted noise. In my case, if I get it right, most likely my arm is very rigid and I’ll lose stamina right away.

Thanks for sharing and helping this thread out. This is a very underestimated passage to play clean with full speed. Looking foward to listen to other takes.

#14

Hi
Another way is to hybrid pick the single note on the G string with middle finger . Everything else alternate picking USX starting with and upstroke or DSX starting with a downstroke .

#15

If you have problems with this outside picking passage you could try and practice the so called hammer-on from nowhere on de D string.
So you pick down up the A on the G string the hammer on the F# on the D string (don’t pick it), so you’re pick stays at the G string, and continue with an upstroke on The G string.

#16

I just played the last one to the feel I was practicing, but it seems to be about 130 BPM. This is 141 BPM:

The album version is 141 or so, and I had to change my mechanics a bit. I think whatever combination of 2wps and DBX/string avoidance I was doing was OK or at least getting there as I increased the speed, but I had to bring in a little more elbow to get the actual PICKING up to speed comfortably (instead of going pretty much all wrist like the last one). I’m new to slanting, micro-wrist movements, and elbow vs. wrist mechanic, or, better yet, the idea of using elbow for shred speed (or 140+ BPM 16ths). So I’ve been kind of getting into using this as something between a tongue-twister drill and a proof of concept.

I have a feeling I’m swiping a bit here, but pretty lightly. The sound doesn’t bug me, but practice-wise I am on the lookout for that.

Also, I’m trying to get into using even more edge picking and using a little less effort. I like that the notes are staying articulate, but I don’t think I can use that much “pick” or that much force at any kind of shred speed. I could be overestimating the need to pare down the motions, though. Please feel free to comment on any of this, including the level of swiping.

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#17

That’s a great story – in the “Making of…” – they’re on a small plane Alex is flying, going home to Toronto, and the tower is putting out the Morse code for YYZ (Toronto’s airport code), with Geddy and Neil in the back saying that that’s a cool rhythm, which they incorporate as the rhythm of the triangle and the intro riff at the head. I never knew that.

Only Rush could turn an instrumental into a literal tribute to their hometown!

Y - . - -
Y - . - -
Z - - . .

So at the end (9:31 in the “Making Of” video), it’s - - . - - - . (they don’t play the spaces in the YYZ code, either).

Of course, I had to look up the combinations. I know, it’s a very “Rush fan” thing to do:

I got a few interesting ones (really, I was hoping they spelled out their initials – G - - . N - . A . - or something, which they ALMOST do).

The best I could do is that they spell out GTG: --. - --.

“Got to go,” right before the end of the song. You know, because Rush was decades ahead of Blackberry/cell phone “TXT coding.” Coincidence, or…prophecy?

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#18

@Ruefus Here it is re-fingered to be all DSX.

YYZdsx#1
YYZdsx#12480×3507 158 KB

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What is tension? Is it bad?
#19

FYI moved to the “YYZ” thread!

#20

Thanks, the post I had replied to in the other thread has since been deleted (surely because it wasn’t meant to go there in the first place).

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#21

Re: how this is done:

In the “live in the studio” video on YT, there are some good picking hand closeups:

From Alex’s form he looks like a wrist DSX player. The motions he’s making fit that. Here’s what they are in the video:

Obviously this doesn’t line up exactly with the audio or fretting motions. Maybe the video editors did some cleaning up. No judgment, Alex is a rock legend. I’m not super familiar with Alex’s technique or their repertoire so his motions may have changed over the years and maybe he played it differently back in the day. We’ve seen this happen many times.

To play this exactly as you hear it, the simplest approach would be to use a mixed escape picking style. There are lots of options for this, like wrist technique, wrist-fingers, wrist-forearm, etc. We mainly teach wrist because it’s common and conceptually the simplest. You just choose one of the three forms and move only the hand. The closest to Alex’s form would be this one:

You could also in theory be more of a single escape player with “helper motions”. However this doesn’t work as well on lines with no obvious single escape patterning because the form and primary motion are not set up for both escapes. The classic case is the wrist player who flicks the forearm to get inside picking. When you do this, you end up hitting that note harder and increasing the chances of missing the note after that, especially if it’s on a different string. Helper motion styles work best when the vocabulary allows the primary joint motion to be used for most things, with only occasional helper motion use for a single note here and there.

If someone wanted to play lines like this all the time we would recommend a mixed-escape playing style. And again, in our teaching, that means wrist technique. But if someone comes to us looking like Martin Miller or Billy Strings or Jimmy Herring, or any of the many other possibilities, and it’s working and sounding good, that’s fine. Whatever gets the results.

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