Hmm I thought this was lightly supinated. It’s a bit flatter than my normal USX motion I can do quite fast (16ths at 180 with lines and simple stuff up to 16ths at 195-200 range). When I try more supinated positions I still have issues clearing on downstrokes, how does the fast “machine gun” video look in terms of wrist orientation?
Edit here is my DWPS for reference 16ths 180 bpm - YouTube
@ParkerLicks here’s an illustration I came up with:
You seem to hold the pick with a negative pick point in your second video.
I’ll try it out, upstrokes mostly feel good it’s downstrokes I seem to have an issue with. But adjustments are needed
Your single escape playing is great, no adjustments needed there as far as I can see or hear.
But the dbx playing setup may need some adjustments. It’s hard to say what specifically as this really does seem to vary from player to player.
The fact that all or almost all of the downstrokes are swiping means that either you’d need to alter the direction the wrist travels (this sounds easier than it actually is, once the speed goes up, it might not work) or alter the setup slightly. This will be a sort of trial and error process. I’d not spend too long on something that isn’t working.
I wish I could be more specific, but dbx varies a lot! Often though I see people make progress with random trial and error of varying setups. So I’d say experiment, record your results and see if we can find a setup where those downstrokes escape.
Alright, I’ve tried experimenting quite a bit and when I speed up to 16ths in the 150 bpm range I always end up with something like my third video. Do you have any pointers on things I could try?
Since you’re looking for new ideas, have you tried doing it this way yet?
There’s a really old thread about it here that stumbled on a week or so ago:
BTW, as others have said, killer playing on the single escape stuff 
Actually have, I’ll keep messing around with it. It just seems like no matter how many adjustments to wrist orientation I can’t get enough flexion to not swipe. And thanks on the single escape stuff. I was struggling with that for a while too but it came together, hoping this does too.
Just to illustrate some variation, have you analysed @Constare9 latest video?
You can see a slightly more supinated form, forearm motion on the upstrokes and also a lot of finger and thumb motion.
More importantly, he describes the trial and error process of feeling these motions out and that does seem to be something that pops up with dbx a lot.
In Troy’s video above, it’s wrist only setup, but when I do this and speed up. Upstrokes swipe. So I ended up more supinated with some forearm motion. I’m still in the learning process on that one, but it’s the closest I’ve gotten yet. It came from just randomly trying to alter things by feel.
How fast is your DX picking at the moment?
Right now I’m unsure, I’ve been making changes by feel without a metronome on. I find a metronome too distracting when trying to learn a motion.
Not as fast as many on here, but I haven’t really been pushing it that much just yet.
Would you say your experimentation is at speeds fast enough to feel smooth
Nothing I do seems to be working. Are some people just unable to do DX motions?
I’m convinced most people can do whatever motion they want, the problem is really when it’s not the one someone naturally has a tendency towards or developed on their own, so they go back and overthink it when trying to do it. Also it tends to feel like a set back at first, so the other thing that happens typically is that the person just gives up on it before they can fully develop it.
Hang in there.
Well I have no idea what to do? I’ve copied the grip and set up in the videos and I’m trying all sorts of different combinations and nothing is working
They feel smooth when I get it working, then I lose it, and get it back again after a break or another day. It’s not consistent yet but it only works if I feel it out.
If I start thinking about my grip and other things too much then I can’t get it going. Also, if I put on a metronome and expect to get it right at 150bpm plus immediately, it’s not gonna happen. I’ll only do that to see if it can work fast, but then slow it down and clean it up.
Everyone is different with how they get this going though and it’s the one picking style that doesn’t have a set of exact rules to follow.
I know this seems counterintuitive for CTC, but what does your cross picking look like at the maximum speed you can actually perform it at before it falls apart? If it’s really slow that’s fine, but looking at it from this perspective may give some insight.
Here’s a video, I’ve tried slowing it down and speeding it up as well and I just get really inaccurate at higher speeds March 23, 2022 - YouTube
Here’s one more video, this is triplets at 170. I don’t swipe as much but it doesn’t feel like a movement i can speed up to triplets at 200 without sacrificing all accuracy and creating more tension. March 23, 2022 - YouTube
So one thing I see right off the bat in the first video is a lot of what looks like pure wrist translation to move across the strings. That in itself is a harder movement to both speed up, and to facilitate a double escape because by nature it’s not very fast on its own, and it tends to have a very straight linear path across the strings.
Now most people don’t physically actually use just pure wrist translation, because it’s pretty hard for most peoples wrists to move purely side to side that way, and indeed you have a slight bit of rotation in there, but maybe just not enough. I think a bit more rotation added in, in order to facilitate both added speed, and that shallow “u” shaped pick stroke needed for a double escape might be the ticket.
If you take a look at the other recent video posted by another user on this very topic, you can see that slight gyrating rotation that is employed to pull it off.
Good advice, any other adjustments you’d try making just to see how it works?