New to forum - feedback and a couple questions

[Tom_Gilroy]

I genuinely don’t know. What I can say for certain is that the feeling of tension and fatigue I experience in my extensors if I try this is deeply unpleasant and concerning.

It isn’t like the “burn” that comes from exercising a muscle for strength and growth.

Even if I could develop some extensor strength to be able to manage a few more reps at those speeds, I cannot believe it will ever be as comfortable or as easy as the (1 2 3) and (1 2 4) combinations. My extensors will always be required to fight against my strongest flexors and against themselves. That’s a fight they can’t win.

[SlyVai]

This is all very interesting to me, as I have always had a 1, 3, 4 weakness that I thought was unique to me, although of course I was aware of the physical limitation, I thought I just needed to put work in to build up the strength needed to coordinate the 3, 4 fingers consistently.

I will have a look at the wrist position as this could help, for sure the fretting position that @Tom_Gilroy describes is used by Vai, that’s very noticeable when he’s playing fast licks on the top two strings.

[Tom_Gilroy]

@SlyVai

This is all very interesting to me, as I have always had a 1, 3, 4 weakness that I thought was unique to me, although of course I was aware of the physical limitation, I thought I just needed to put work in to build up the strength needed to coordinate the 3, 4 fingers consistently.

I’m sure for many people, some work with (3 4) could improve their facility with the combination. If somebody has completely neglected the combination in the past, they may have a lot of unrealised potential. I don’t want to discourage anybody from working on (3 4). I just hold the position that the potential for the (3 4) combination is inherently and unavoidably inferior than the potential for other combinations, due to anatomical reasons.

@SlyVai

I will have a look at the wrist position as this could help, for sure the fretting position that @Tom_Gilroy describes is used by Vai, that’s very noticeable when he’s playing fast licks on the top two strings.

Yes, Vai often uses a similar skewed or canted posture too.

Vai is a real outlier when it comes to hand size, even for his height (apparently about 6’2"). Here’s an interesting picture which shows Vai comparing hands with Holdsworth.

Holdsworth was a tall man (about 6’4") with large hands.

[joebegly]

@Tom_Gilroy

Vai is a real outlier when it comes to hand size, even for his height (apparently about 6’2"). Here’s an interesting picture which shows Vai comparing hands with Holdsworth.

Holdsworth was a tall man (about 6’4") with large hands.

What a great picture! I always thought Vai had abnormally large (long) hands but not to that extent.

I’m also surprised that the act of those 2 men touching hands didn’t cause a nuclear reaction

[Tom_Gilroy]

I imagine there are only very few guitar players with larger hands than Vai. Gilbert is also a tall man (also about 6’4") with large hands. I’d be interested to see a direct comparison between Vai’s hands and Gilbert’s hands.

Interestingly enough, Vai’s 4th finger appears to be relatively short compared to his 3rd finger. In most pictures, it appears that the tip of his 4th finger comes to about the DIP of his 3rd. I suspect Vai’s hands are larger than Gilbert’s overall, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gilbert has longer 4th fingers.

[SlyVai]

Hi @Tom_Gilroy,

@Tom_Gilroy

I don’t want to discourage anybody from working on (3 4). I just hold the position that the potential for the (3 4) combination is inherently and unavoidably inferior than the potential for other combinations, due to anatomical reasons.

Although I confess that I have consciously favoured 1,2,4 patterns over 1,3,4 in the past, because of the realisation that I am consistently better at 1,2,4, I have worked on the 1,3,4 pattern over the years to try and improve it and I will continue to do so. Especially now I have the knowledge that skewing the wrist can help.

Cool picture !

It should also be noted though that Mr Vai favours 1,2,4 patterns in his playing below the 12th fret such as 4,5,7 on D and G strings and his love of C Lydian incorporating 9,10,12 on A and D strings.

Also his massive left hand allows him to use 1,2,3 fingerings on a range of stretched patterns above the 12th fret using the skewed wrist position. Example high E string :12,14,16 he would play with a 1,2,3 fingering which I would never be able to do with my little fingers.