Setting up midi functions with a pedal switcher

Gear
#1

I’m having a really hard time understanding how to set up the midi functions on my recent pedalboard build.
Is there anybody that has done this that could possibly help guide me through this?

I have 3 midi pedals:
All in this order through the Fx loop

Strymon Mobius
Duncan Amdromeda
Duncan Silver Lake Reverb

All to be controlled with a Musicomlab MKiii+ switcher. Yes, it’s an older model but it functions perfectly.

I know how to set the switcher up so I can turn individual pedals on/off within the patch’s 4 presets slots.
And I’ve got the Mobius set on midi channel 1, but I can’t figure out how to setup the other pedals on their own midi channels (the Mobius keeps switching the presets in the Duncan pedals).
And I don’t know how to make the midi message pick the specific bank/patches I want to have change.
The manual, to me is confusing because I don’t understand what the midi function chart is trying to tell me.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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#2

Hi @Gtrjunior.

I own a Mobius, and I’m pretty familiar with it’s MIDI functionality. The MIDI settings are easily adjusted on the device in the global settings menu. You seem to have that much figured out.

As for the Seymour Duncan pedals, I looked at the manuals and it seems they’re set to listen on ANY MIDI Channel by default, so they’re hearing every MIDI command you’re sending. A single sentence in those manuals says that other channels are available in the Librarian (their editing software). My guess is that it might be necessary to connect the pedals to the editing software to reassign the MIDI Channels they receive on.

As for the program change (PC) messages, this should actually be pretty simple. Firstly, for each of your pedals, every program change message corresponds to a unique preset number.
The manuals should indicate how each device interprets PC messages.

  • For the Mobius, bank-preset 00-A corresponds to PC 0, 00-B to PC 1, 01-A to PC 2 and so on. So n-A corresponds to PC (2n), n-B corresponds to PC (2n+1).

  • For the Andromeda, bank-preset 01-A corresponds to PC 0, 01-B to PC 1, 02-A to PC 2 and so on. So n-A corresponds to PC (2n-2), n-B corresponds to PC (2n-1).

  • I can’t find the PC info for the Silver Lake, but it seems like banks start at 01 and there are 3 presets A,B and C in each bank. Usually, this would mean 01-A corresponds to PC 0, 01-B to PC 1, 01-C to PC 2, 02-A to PC 3 and so on. Then, n-A corresponds to PC (3n-3), n-B to PC (3n-2) and n-C to PC (3n-1).

PC messages are limited to the range 0-127. It seems your MKIII+ labels these as 1-128, so you’ll probably have to add 1 to the correct PC message when programming the MKIII+ to send the correct message. This is easily checked, just ensure that PC 1 from your switcher selects 00A on the Mobius. The Mobius has presets beyond this range. I’d recommend not using them, as this requires you to send bank change messages.

Send the right PC command on the right MIDI Channel, and the pedal will switch to the specific preset required. That’s all there is to it. So, suppose you want 07-B on the Mobius. Well, that means we need to send PC (2*7 + 1) = PC 15.

Alternatively, you send sequential PC messages starting from PC 0 from your switcher to select presets, and change the settings on each pedal to suit, then save. If you want the same preset available for multiple PC messages, then just copy the preset to the corresponding locations on each pedal, either in the software editors or on the devices. With this approach, you won’t even need multiple channels. Everything can listen on the same (or ANY) channel, and all presets will change together. Some people find this approach easier.

If you just want to use PC messages, their shouldn’t be any problem beyond assigning each pedal a unique channel and sending the correct PC messages, or following the second method an allowing everything to change together. It might be helpful to set the pedals to ignore controller change (CC) messages, which you may be sending unintentionally.

If you intend to use MIDI to control tap tempo on the Mobius or the Andromeda, it’ll likely be a little more complicated. It seems that your switcher sends CC messages on a single designated channel, which is probably Channel 1 or 2 by default. CC 93 is the tap tempo command for both the Mobius and the Andromeda. The Mobius requires the value to be non-zero (so any number from 1-127 should be fine), and I think the tap switch on your device would need to be in momentary mode. The Andromeda probably requires this too, but I’m not sure. I don’t think you’ll be able to use your switcher to control tap on both devices, unless their both listening on the same channel and the taps are always synchronized.

MIDI can be a pain to set up, but the results can be very impressive when you have everything working correctly. I’d recommend that you enable trails on your delays and reverbs to make switching between presets sound as natural as possible.

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#3

Thank you for your response…very detailed and I appreciate you taking the time to type all that.

You’re correct about the Duncan pedals needing to be edited in the librarian. I actually downloaded it yesterday but of course I didn’t have the right usb cable. I have one on order but I won’t get it until the end of the week. Luckily I’m on vacation from work next week so I’ll have the time to learn the midi functions and hopefully get this set up.
It looks so confusing.
All of the manuals for the pedals have the command list you spoke about.
Am I able to send more than one command to each pedal? I would imaging I would have to…one to tell the pedal to turn on/off, another to tell which preset program to switch to…correct? I think I read somewhere that the switcher can send up to 5 messages.
Maybe what I’ll try to do is just set up the Mobius first. If I can get it to do what I want I can move on to the other two.

Another question:
I only need to send the midi cables to the pedals and not looped back to the switcher, is that right?
In other words switcher midi out to Mobius midi in/midi thru to Andromeda midi in/thru to silver lake midi in…I don’t need to midi thru from the silver lake BACK to the switcher do I?

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#4

Ok. The librarian programs for most new effects are quite powerful, and USB makes everything easier. The Strymons are a little awkward because they require a USB to MIDI interface to use the librarian. I haven’t used the Seymour Duncan pedals, but I imagine they have the same capability. The downside is that some devices have settings that are actually impossible to edit without the librarian software.

Based on the manual for your switcher, it seems you can send 5 PC messages per preset and 12 CC messages. You’ll never send more than one PC message to each device per preset. It seems that the CC messages are linked to the 8 loops and 4 remote switches, and are sent when these loops/switches are activated and deactivated.

I was wrong about CC channels, each CC message can be sent on any channel 1-16.

You can either find the CC message for bypass (it’s often CC 102) from the MIDI tables in your manuals and send those messages as necessary, or you could leave the pedal active at all times and just disable the loop it’s connected in (assuming the pedals are actually in the effects loops, which they should be). The former will allow for greater functionality, but the latter would be easier (though delay and reverb trails will probably be affected).

I don’t know how to use the CC messages for tap tempo with your switcher. I think you’d need to use an external momentary switch connected to the XPDL input of your switcher to achieve that functionality, using the CC message tied to that XPDL input.

Good idea. Also check the default PC changes on p14 of the MKIII+ manual. Start from default settings and see how changing presets effects the Mobius.

Yes, that’s right. Do not loop back to the switcher. Believe it or not, the MIDI in on your switcher exists so you can control the switcher by another MIDI device.

Be sure to write down your MIDI settings for each bank and preset on the MKIII+ and be sure to back up your patches for the Mobius and the Seymour Duncan pedals with their editors. Preset memory for your switcher and pedals depends on internal batteries, which will eventually need to be replaced. The internal battery in my Yamaha UD-Stomp died last year, and it took all my presets and my MIDI table with it. Thankfully, I had all that written down.

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#5

Hey!! Sorry I haven’t responded in a few days…work has been crazy busy and I haven’t had any time to work on the pedalboard. I have a weeks vacation this coming week so it’s my hope that I can get it all straightened out.

On a positive note, I had all day today to futz around with it and I have figured out how to make it work (mostly)!!

The only remaining issue I’m having is preset recall.
IOW…I spent today making 2 patches for songs I’m doing in the band.
One is Rooster but AIC and the other is Breath by Breaking Benjamin.
I was able to set up all of the presets and save them in the Mobius, Andromeda and Silver Lake…no issues there.
Then I was also able to set up the patches in the Musicomlab along with ththe proper midi changes. Again, not too much of a problem.
The problem is that when I navigate to a new patch and them come back one I already set up, the changes are all messed up.
Things like, it picks the wrong reverb patch or it goes to bank 1/A when I previously set it to go to bank1/B. As long as I stay in the current patch all of the changes work perfectly.

Since I have those pedals running through the looper I don’t need to send CC messages to it…correct? I only need to send PC messages.
I’m thinking that I have some setting either in the Musicomlab or the Mobius set incorrectly.

Thoughts on this?
Thanks again…you’ve been a big help so far, probably more than you realize.

2 Likes
#6

Don’t worry about it!

Honestly, if you’re recalling the wrong patch, you’re probably not sending the right PC messages from your Musicomlab MKIII+.

Try following this procedure.

  1. Reset your MKIII+ to default settings. Ensure that each of your pedals is assigned to listen on the correct MIDI channel.

  2. Start at bank 1, preset 1 of the MKIII+. By default, this should send the lowest possible PC message on channel 1 only. Check to see if 00A or 00B is selected on your Mobius. If it’s A, your sending PC 0. If it’s B, you’re sending PC 1. The manual says it’s PC 1, but make sure to check this. If it’s offset, you’ll need to account for this offset.

  3. Program the MKIII+ to also send the same PC message number from step 1 on channels 2 and 3 also. Now, switch to a different MKIII+ preset, and switch back again. The MKIII+ has just sent the lowest PC message it can send on channels 1, 2 and 3.

  4. Check that this reliably results in the same three locations being selected on the pedals. For example, if you get 00A in the Mobius and 01A on each of the Duncan’s each time, that’s great. If you get 00B on the Mobius and 01B on the Duncan’s each time, that’s great too. What’s important is that you’re reliably selecting the same set of three locations every time. If this isn’t working correctly, you need to check that the PC messages you want the MKIII+ to send have been programmed correctly.

  5. If everything is working right, you can edit the settings on each pedal now and save to the current preset and bank. So if your sending PC 0 and selecting 00A on the Mobius and 01A on the Duncan’s, save to those locations. If you’re sending PC 1 and selecting 00B on the Mobius and 01B on the Duncan’s, save to those locations. I recommend naming patches on Mobius when you save them for later identification.

  6. Switch to another preset on the MKIII+ and switch back. The same set of three locations as before should be selected, which should now have your settings saved.

It would also be helpful if you could program bank 1, preset 2 of the MKIII+ to send the next lowest PC message on channels 1, 2 and 3 also. Then, try alternating between presets 1 and 2 and see if it’s reliably switching locations on the pedals.

Let me know if you can get this much to work, and then we can build from there. Write down exactly what happens and tell me which locations get selected, etc. Then, I’ll help you build from there. Without actually being in the room though, I need to know everything that’s happening.

Don’t worry about building your sounds too much yet, let’s get a clear understanding of the programming first and we can worry about that part later.

You shouldn’t need to send CC messages if the pedals are in the loops, but again, we’ll worry about this later.

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#7

ok…I’m going to work on this right now.
Am I correct in assuming that beacuse the Musicomlab uses PC messages 1-128 and the Strymon and Duncan pedals use 0-127, I will need to add +1 to each PC message?
So, in order to recall Mobius patch 00A, I’d need to send PC message 01 for “A”, 02 for patch “B”, 03 for patch 2A etc?

#8

Also, im fairly certain that i have some Strymon settings wrong… I had the midi clock turned on and a cojple of other midi functions on as well…im researching them now to see what i need on/off.
i kmos that midi thru needs to be on

#9

This is what I want to check. It could be an offset, or it might possibly be that 1-127 are correct and the MKIII+ uses 128 instead of 0.

Usually, 128 doesn’t exist in MIDI, so something unusual is happening.

You need MIDI thru, you need to be able to receive PC messages and you need the channels set correctly. You don’t need MIDI clock for now, but it shouldn’t cause problems if it’s on. Make sure you’re ignoring CC messages for now, you might be sending them unintentionally and that definitely will mess things up.

#10

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FA20E663-ABCD-49C0-A66D-DAB1BDA1D797.jpeg2448×3264 1.8 MB
Yesterday I went through the list of functions and set everything to “off”. I believe this is the list of CC functions so having them off shouldn’t affect any of the changes we are discussing? (I think!)

#11

I have a pdf of that manual downloaded, you don’t need to show me pictures.

The first 5 of those functions are PC messages, PC.1 to PC.5.

CC messages are powerful and can change things you might not expect. I’d like you to set the pedals to ignore them for now if you can, whether you think you’re sending those messages or not.

#12

Ok here’s what I did.
I have Mobius on ch1
Reverb in Ch 2
And delay in ch 3

On Mobius PC change #1 displays bank 00A
The Duncan pedals both go to bank 01A
So it seems that the Mobius is the only pedal that needs to have the math done to it to get the right bank chosen.

#13

Also, I have shut off all CC messaging

Now I’m going to try switching patches and see if it is recalling properly

#14

Ok, this would indicate offset values, it seems that the MKIII+ sends PC 0 but calls the message PC 1.

Also, please program preset 2 of the MKIII+ to send the message called PC 2 (which is probably PC 1 in reality) on each channel and tell me what happens.

#15

Not sure what you mean about sending pc2 message?
I’m in bank 2 of the Musicomlab.
You want me to enter the edit mode I assume but I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking

#16

Even though I did a factory reset it seems the Mobius still has some preset messages going on inside otherwise blank banks
The Duncan pedals both have ——— this which means no message sent. (In the blank patches.)
For some reason the Mobius is implanting it’s own messages.

#17

I can take a short video of what is going on if that helps?

#18

You’ve programmed one preset of the MKIII+ to send PC 1 on channels 1, 2 and 3. I want you to program some other preset on the MKIII+ to send PC 2 in channels 1, 2 and 3 also.

Video would be great!

#19

Ok hang tight a minute.

#20

We can Skype if you like too. Let me know.

[email protected]