Technical Difficulties Sextuplets

Technique Critique
#1

Hello, this is my first post! Basically, I’ve hit a wall and I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.

I think I pick with a downslant? The following shows the motion I use to play faster things, it’s just an ascending chromatic lick at 200 BPM:

Sorry it’s such a slop-fest, and I hope it’s usable footage. I’m not much of a player or a filmmaker lol. Anyway, this doesn’t seem to transfer to the monster sextuplet lick in the first 30 seconds or so of the Racer X tune Technical Difficulties. Here’s the first part at 110 BPM (the tune is 130 BPM)

And here’s the full lick:

It looks like I’m using my fingers more, right? And that’s what’s slowing me down? No clue what to do to be honest.

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Gabrielthorn progress thread
#2

Summoning @tommo who is the resident Technical Difficulties expert!

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#3

Great playing. The chromatic stuff is killer, and the sixes are kind of fine too.

I summoned Tommo before listening, because I assumed you were going to play the main riff with the two-string pattern. But you’re doing sixes, so I’ll chime in on this.

Have you watched the Primer stuff yet? Your motion is USX, which means you can only use it when switching strings via upstroke. That’s why you hit the strings in the second clip. This motion can’t be used for doing ascending sixes on a pair of strings because it’s a single escape motion, and repeatoing ascending sixes on two strings requires both escapes.

I say “can’t”, of course, but you’re doing it and again it sounds kind of fine. The little blip of noise you hear on the third note is called swiping and it’s caused by hitting the muted high E string as you attempt to go over it. In a mix you’d never hear this. Hell. most people won’t hear this unless we point it out. So your approach here is actually one way to play this phrase with a single escape motion.

The overlapping multi-string sixes is actually a single escape lick so with your motion you have to start it on an upstroke, not a downstroke. That will fix the string changes.

Short answer, great playing. This motion looks and sounds fine to me and needs to be paired with USX phrases that use upstroke switching, like the chromatic lick in the first example or overlapping sixes starting on an upstroke.

If you have no idea what any of this stuff is that I’m talking about, that’s fine, check out the Primer and then revisit!

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#4

I think you sorted it already :slight_smile:

But yes the upstroke start will fix everything except the very last note (E played at 14th fret D string).

For that one you can either:

  • not bother and swipe the last string change
  • move it to fret 19 of the A string, (I’ve seen Paul himself do this), then the lick becomes single-escape all the way
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#5

Hi @troy and @tommo

Thanks for your quick and detailed responses. My understanding is that you’re saying that the monster lick should be more playable starting on an upstroke since this means I’ll always be changing strings with an upstroke, which allows my pick to escape the space between the strings according to my posture (USX.)

To play it fast and 100% clean starting on a downstroke I’ll need a DSX technique right? Then my downstrokes will escape the space between the strings and I can easily switch. Sorry if this is the dumbest question ever but I literally don’t understand how it’s even physically possible to angle the pick upwards. See here:

https://streamable.com/t2mnkt

When I rotate my wrist, my thumb digs into the strings below and I have no room to pick.

#6

Yes you’re correct, your motion is currently an upstroke-switching motion so the pickstrokes need to be flipped.

Re: DSX motion, It’s not about angling the pick. It’s about using a joint motion that moves into the air when you play a downstroke. When you do this, the pick will look like whatever it looks like based on which joint motion and which pick grip you use. And this will not always appear to be slanted.

The Primer has detailed instructions for doing all this, and some fun table-top tests you can use to learn the motions if you want. Start there and see how you make out.

But generally, as far as a USX technique, this technique looks fine and I wouldn’t be in any huge rush to change it.

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#7

Amazing picking with the chromatic stuff. I’m not anywhere near this but I find these kind of 6s easier to play than any 4nps or 2nps stuff starting with a downstroke.

#8

Wow, sweet rotational picking motion, man! You’ve got amazing speed and very consistent and beautiful attack playing those chromatic runs!

I have a question, do you find it easier or harder to play with palm muting vs non muted playing when playing at these speeds? Is there any difference between palm muting on high strings vs low strings?

#9

Thanks Troy. I didn’t appreciate that there was more to it than just angling the pick. I’ll have to do my homework.

Thanks!

Thanks very much! I don’t quite know what rotational picking is, but I’ll learn all of this in detail soon I hope lol.

Significantly easier to play palm muted for me.

I think it’s a bit easier to palm mute the lower strings, but it’s not too bad to mute the higher ones.

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#10

I know I’ve been wrong on this point before, in particular regarding your own technique, but this really looks like wrist-forearm to me more so than pure forearm. This is just based on the motion path the hand and pick seem to be following, which looks more like a straight line going into and out of the strings. That, and the fact that some clips show a little more arm wiggle than others, which is common when you look at wrist-forearm players like Doug Aldrich.

So I think as far as muting this might provide a more consistent muting contact across all strings, esp. with this much wrist flex and arm supination. Again, like a Doug Aldrich type posture.

#11

A post was split to a new topic: Identifying the difference between wrist and forearm motion

Identifying the difference between wrist and forearm motion
#12

The “rotational picking” term refers to a picking motion coming from the forearm rotating. You can see your own forearm rotating, especially in your first clip. For more info check the Primer out where Troy shows this better than me.

But just for transparency in the discussion, this is what my rotational picking motion looks like.

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#13

This reminds me of how EVH picks, really fascinating stuff…

#14

@GageBonner I just remember that a few years ago I came up with a “trick” to play the fast parts of the main riff with upstroke-escape only.

Please forgive the poor quality of the recording and the meh timing, but it is the concept that matters - hope you find it useful :slight_smile:

#15

Update roughly two weeks later. Thanks for your great tips @troy and @tommo . Here’s the monster lick at the original 130 BPM. It’s not 100% clean, I can’t play it every time (and I certainly don’t dare to post a slow-mo video yet :rofl:) but it’s within reach I think. Starting with an upstroke is really tricky.

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#16

It’s a great technique to have though, and it seems you’re doing well with it :slight_smile:

#17

That’s sounding pretty good!

#18

Saw you asked about palm muting above. When using forearm rotation at high speeds, do you sometimes find it easier to not palm mute? I forget who it was, but didn’t Friedman or MAB say they dont palm mute at high speeds? I sometimes find it easier for fast runs (if im trying forearm rotation) to not palm mute

#19

Yes I agree, the motion is easier if I lift up the hand and angle my wrist more. The motion get’s more powerful and more reliable. To palm mute, I have to straighten the wrist more which makes the motion weaker. But at the same time I love the palm muted sound so I’m really working hard on getting it to work. Some day…