Since i changed the way the pick’s travel, a bit towards the bridge from low to high E (like a part of a circle), to almost in a straight lin, i play much more accurate.
Love to hear some feedback on this.
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I’ve noticed mine is not in a straight line and tends to be a bit staggered. String tracking is not something I tend to think about much - I think it’s more a consequence of where you start in relation to the bridge (i.e., picking closer to the neck from the beginning on the low E will have you wind up relatively farther from the neck on the high E as well). I don’t recommend trying to “overcontrol” where you pick or string track.
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It helps me a lot to be more aware of the travel of the pick and use stringtracking. Eventualy it wil become something i do not have to think about anymore, but at this stage i have to.
The problem with not going in a more straight line and don’t do stringtracking, is that the angle of the pick will be a bit different on every string.
That’s fair enough. As a pedagogical device I’m sure it can’t hurt as long as it eventually becomes subconscious. For what it’s worth Troy has a section on Stringtracking in the Yngwie/Volcano seminar. Great and useful for this technique.
It sounds like you’re saying you made changes to your picking motion. That’s the main way that players control the particular motion path relative to the strings that they are using. What kind of motion were you using, and what did you change it to? Both wrist deviation and elbow flexion/extension move the pick in a “windshield wiper” semicircle like you are describing, so you’re probably using one of those.
In fact, this exact topic, using combinations of motions to generate different motion paths was the focus of our most recent broadcast:
https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/crosspicking-with-the-wrist-and-forearm/
The general concept here is that the path of the pick’s travel is controlled by the joints you use. Each joint operates in a particular plane. And by combining those planes you can move along all the in-between paths that no single joint can reach.
However you have to be careful because the parts of the guitar itself, like the bridge or the headstock or whatever, are not great landmarks for these paths. Someone who approaches the strings at a different angle than you can use the exact same picking motion but end up with a different path. The motion of the pick is all relative to your arm position, not the guitar, so you really have to look at the arm position, not the guitar hardware.
Ultimately, as far as we know, none of these motions and combinations are any more accurate than any of the others. And I don’t think string tracking is really a thing players do consciously when they play, since it all just becomes memorized. So the difficulty there kind of disappears eventually. But it is totally fair that someone might be better at one motion or motion blend than another.
Personally I will say that this stuff was all super confusing to me and I used different motions all the time without realizing what I was doing. I tried to use guitar parts as landmarks and that was confusing too because it kept changing based on small differences in arm position, grip, and so forth.
We’re getting better at learning exactly what the different joints do, and how to separate each of their contributions and control them individually. The better we get at this, the more I feel we are capable of teaching all the movements to anyone.
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Thnx a lot for your explanation Troy!
The main thing i changed (for the moment) is that i am not letting my hand rest in one position but move it together with the forearm (even shoulder) accross the strings in order to keep the picks angle the same on every string.
I watched a lot to Martin Miller who also does this and even moves slightly towards the neck going from low to high E.
My motion is like schaking water of your hands; like playing funky rhythmn guitar but then with very small movement.
Here you can see my motion and pick travel. I try to go even in a more straight line now.
When you like at about 1:15 you can see clearly how Martin Miller’s picktravel is. It goes from low to high E slitghtly towards the neck (in this case he starts on the high E)
Also you can see how his whole arm moves to get this motion happening in such a way that the angle of the pick the same on every string.
1:28 is also a good to watch the pick travel.
At least, that is how i see it.
I am starting to fell more and more what his motions are. Only this micro finger/thumb lift motion i can’t control yet.
What the great Chris Thile tells here from about 3:09 is exactely what i am working on and what i see also in Martin Miller’s picking: al parts of the arm should be availble for motion, from the knuckle of the index finger all the way to your shoulder, and don’t lock anything.
I already can feel the benefit of this.
What i am doubting about is the index finger supporting the thumb for more stability.
Obviously Anton Oparin and John Mc Laughlin also do this, but Martin Miller does not.
I do not like the feel of that, i like to rest my fingers lightly on the pickguard, to have more control of how deep the pick goes in relation to the string, and go even under the high E string when picking on the lower strings, same way as Martin Miller does; both have there benefits i guess.
@Andjoy : I must be the exact opposite to what you strive for. A fixed anchor at the bridge, to reach all 6 strings from there by wrist deviation is what works best for me, and what I feel is the most comfortable.
Also I do the index finger support thing you describe. I never really thought about that and ii would seem to me that everybody with a 2 fingers pick grip would do that. So … obviously not, but maybe it’s something that is a clue of an uwps grip, as it might be more logical that way as opposed to a dwps grip. Don’t know … to me it’s just second nature to have that support finger, I don’t think I’ve ever did another way.
@blueberrypie, haha, that is what i used to do, the fixed postion, and i am now breaking away from that.
I already can feel the benefits for me, especialy with one note per string playing and runs that go over 3 or more strings.
Picking Seems to be very personal, but still i believe there must be one way which works for everybody and gives the fastest/best results without injuries.
It sounds like you guys are talking about what I call “arm tracking”. The reason Martin has to do this is because his picking motion is too small to reach multiple strings from a single wrist anchor. It’s mostly fingers. Martin stopped by a few weeks ago and we talked about this subject in detail. As a point of interest, his elbow only moves about one inch from the low E string to the high E string. So Martin’s arm tracking motion is a combination of shoulder and elbow.
Wrist players like Thiele and Oparin can anchor in one spot and reach multiple strings easily. The wrist has a surprisingly large reach because the deviation movement already moves in the plane you need to reach those strings. This works well for things like bluegrass roll patterns, because moving the entire arm rapidly back and forth isn’t as practical.
Yes, your pick attack will be slightly different from string to string as you do this. No, this is not necessarily a bad thing. For high gain, I like less edge picking on the low strings and more on the high strings. This creates a more similar tone from string to string. Wrist tracking produces this by default. i.e. Radial deviation flattens out your edge picking, so the low strings aren’t as scratchy. Try this with a clean tone and you’ll appreciate how this works to even out the sound across all six strings.
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@Troy, Steve Morse for instance also uses shoulder/elbow tracking and does not use any finger motion at all.
Could it be that using the fixed position works better if you have larger hands, like Antin Oparin?
Not sure if you can see this clip, but Steve can reach most of a six-string arpeggio with wrist motion, and his arm only tracks a small amount:
https://troygrady.com/interviews/steve-morse/clips/arpeggios-six-string-tk1/
Yes, it does move, but only a little. The wrist makes up the rest. The center point of the wrist picking motion is different on the lower strings than the higher ones.
In other words, Steve does a little bit of both. When you watch players who aren’t thinking too much about “string tracking”, this is mostly what you see, a mix. It appears to be the most common approach out there in the real world.
Steve’s hands are giant, like baseball gloves, so I don’t know how much of a factor that really plays. If you use wrist motion as your picking motion, like Steve does, the wrist can reach pretty far, so a little help from the arm is all you need.
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Thnx again for your thoughts on this Troy! Realy appreciate it!
What is also something i try to do more and more is loosten my grip on the pick.
If you look at Steve Morse or Martin Miller, they have a very loose grip even at high speeds. Somehow it helps me also with the accuracy, although it is strange to explain, a more tight grip should be more accurate because there is less delay when hitting string to produce the tone; confuses me…
I think it has to do with loosening up everything. If you loosen your grip other muscles will also be more loose and therefore the overall tension of all the muscles in the arm will be less.
Picture of Steve Morse on the upstroke,you can clearly see how loose the pickgrip is.
Martin Miller, also loose grip. Not as loose as SteveMorse though.
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I have been using Martin’s style of picking (Rotation + Finger/Wrist Extension) for Crosspicking and I also definitely feel more Shoulder/Arm tracking than I do when I use the Wrist Crosspicking (which is still in the somewhat sloppy development phase).
I think it helps you to stay centered over the strings more- which definitely fits with the range of motion of the rotational curve (which does not have as much reach since you are not using wrist deviation). This also means you can’t anchor too hard on the heel of the wrist as you have to be able to slide the hand to track along. I find that this promotes a loose hand position (fingers splayed out)- which helps with the technique and the use of the fingers (if you hold too tightly then it is hard to move the fingers).
I actually find this technique to be easier for me than wrist Crosspicking but that’s probably because I’ve worked on it longer and that this technique is a Crosspick only type of motion whereas wrist movement can be mixed and matched for DWPS/UWPS, 2WPS, Crosspicking, and Sweeping.
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At 8:58 is Martin shows such great example of how he is letting everything work togehter. The finger/thumb motion, the wrist, the forearm, the ellbow and the shoulder; It s like a beautiful dance!
This is what i want to accomplish! You can play anything with this technique!
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Very well said!
To master this Martin Miller style picking is what i want to accomplish; I am getting there.
Just to add something to this discussion. I recently switched from wrist/elbow/shoulder/finger tracking to just pure isolated elbow tracking. It took a bit of time to get used to, and may seem kinda strange when doing things like string alternating, but overall… it’s helped me quite a bit with accuracy and flexibility. It makes everything much simpler in the long run. I’d recommend it to anyone considering it.
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I will for sure give that a try.