Thanks for asking! It’s going pretty well. I can use on EJ phrases and also the 3nps ‘patterns’ (but obviously playing an even number of notes per string) I’m familiar with. I do sometimes experience what you’ve said where it will turn into a different motion if I’m not paying attention. Then the escape stops and it becomes more trapped. It’s definitely getting better though. A lot of last year I took (another!) detour and worked on a DBX motion, but since last week I got the EJ bug again and dusted off the USX and it’s working pretty well. Maybe someday I’ll take Troy’s excellent advice and stop messing with all these motions and just stick to the stuff I’m best at lol! I just seem to have more enjoyment improving at stuff that I can’t yet do. At least I’m having fun!
I’m curious to know that if you developed a very strong reliable 2WPS motion, would you use that for something like EJ stuff? Or would you just revert back to strict USX for it?
Not sure if that’s a question for me or qwertygitar, but I have thought about this honestly. The other thing I’m working on along the DBX (crosspicking) stuff is the more versatile Wood/Oparin motion that can be used for scalar playing as well. If I had that going as well as someone like Andy Wood, I think I’d probably just use that motion for almost everything. He sounds pretty convincing on EJ phrases. The only thing I don’t hear him do is the DDU economy stuff but I’m sure that’s a choice he’s made. You can still do that motion from him posture.
Oh, I saw your question earlier but thought it was meant for Tom. (Maybe it still is.) But I’ll answer it anyway. 
No, EJ stuff is so perfectly fleshed out via the one way USX playing style. I love to play licks in that style and it’s one more of those things that Troy really helped open up a new world through. Pentatonics was always awkward before, but adding in sweeps helps with speed and fluidity and creates a flow that is unique and feels great to play.
You clearly can do similar things with 2WPS though, just look at Joe Bonamassa, but I can’t see any big benefits. Now the 2WPS motion for me is at the moment only to be able to pick all the notes of a descending 3nps scale. I have tried it with ascending scales in the past but that feels a bit more awkward than just staying in USX and use swiping instead.
What are your thoughts about USX vs 2WPS for pentatonics?
I might have a chance later in the week. I’m busy at the moment grading of end of semester exams. I’m sure I can demonstrate a couple of outside Gilberts or something without much difficulty.
This seems really discordant to me. I feel there must be something, somewhere in your playing which is incongruous with this movement and which interrupts your ability to perform it on command. Something which is affecting your sensitivity to haptic feedback and causing your mind-muscle connection to fail.
I don’t believe that age is the issue. I learned how to do the Shawn Lane style dart-thrower USX form in my 30s; I’ve only been doing it for about two years, and I don’t experience any lack of connection to the movement. Most of my students are older than me, and they successfully learn and execute efficient picking mechanics in fairly short periods of time.
Tension absolutely affects haptic perception though, so that could very well be the root of the issue.
Does this movement feel powerful to you, with a high dynamic range? If so, does it feel effortless when you create power? In a lesson earlier this week I was demonstrating developing power with my picking hand and I hit the string so hard it got caught under the lip of my neck humbucker, while remaining loose and maintaining my time feel.
I think single-escape mechanics generally allow for much wider tolerances than mixed-escape, I definitely feel that more accuracy is required.
As for your form in particular though, I think you need to learn to lean into pronation more to create a stable DSX form with this movement. Trying to maintain your tactile reference with your fingers under the strings or bridge pickup is probably impeding you from pronating enough.
I don’t know if @carranoj25 directed this question to me or not, but I’ll weigh in.
EJ’s playing is the primary reason I began to transition away from the mixed escape form I developed as a teenager. The mixed escape form has a lot of pick attack, very reminiscent of Gilbert/Oparin. It’s absolutely possible to used mixed escape mechanics to pick EJ’s lines, but it’s much more demanding than imitating Erics form and playing with USX, and it just doesn’t capture the EJ vibe the same way. I could never get past the feeling that I was trying to fit a square peg into around hole. EJ’s influence in my playing began to manifest much more strongly when I learned to imitate his form.
I don’t really do much of the “alternate pick everything” approach any more, but I still know it and I can still do a lot of it.
Interestingly, I’ve never really developed a pure DSX vocabulary, like the Frank Gambale DSX with upstroke sweeping stuff. I have the mixed escape alternate picking and crosspicking, swybrid (two-way economy), and some DSX plus hybrid picking stuff, all coming from a similar form. Very little in the way of pure DSX vocabularly though, even though the fundamental movement pattern is well developed.
I love Frank Gambale’s playing though, so maybe that’s the next thing I’ll focus on now that I have a handle on the Eric Johnson and Shawn Lane USX systems. Maybe I won’t bother and I’ll be satisfied with what I already have, or maybe I’ll finally learn how to do tapping, which I am hilariously terrible at.
I generally agree but as like someone mentioned above with the DDU phrases, I think I generally do USX but DDU is difficult for me. I execute DUU soooo much better and I’m not sure why; I think it’s just easier for my wrist or forearm to flick back for an inside pick lol.
Yes that would be really cool! Also if you could play a descending scale, preferably over all six strings if possible. That’s the one big challenge I would like to learn.
Well it’s hard to say if there is a causality but I do have a kidney decease that causes my potassium levels to be high, which in turn affects muscles to loose some control. Since I started doing dialysis a few months ago things might be slightly better but it’s hard to say if it is only in my mind.
But i would say that technical stuff have always been hard to pull off live because of stress and a will to perform perfectly. It doesn’t really matter what picking strategy I have been using so I think it’s more of a mental disorder than a physical one.
Well it’s cool to hear about older people learning stuff. Very encouraging!
Yes when I feel in control of the motion it feels very powerful yet relaxed. But it is a loose kind of motion which means that it is harder to control timing wise than wrist, which feels more controlled and stiff. It is actually easier to max out on the rotation speed than it is to play medium speed. I have worked quite much on feeling loose but powerful even at slower tempos and i feel like at that tempo the wrist is activated and added to the rotation. I don’t know if this is normal…
Thanks for taking the time!
That’s very cool! It sounds like it is more compatible with DSX so are you sure you’r doing USX? I remember doing spontaneous UUDs back when I did pronated DSX unconsciously, long before CtC. Please feel free to share videos of this. It would be interesting to see!
@qwertygitarr initially meant to reply to you with this but I’m seeing my post doesn’t have the reply to arrow with your name on it
Here is an old video of my
Playing for this forum where I demonstrate the Gilbert lick starting on upstroke (don’t remember if I do any UUD here tho) but the next lick is from
The Miracle Man solo with Zakk and Ozzy. Maybe after a new look at it it’s not so much USX as I thought. I still think I’m slightly supinated with this setup and if I were to do it today I would still feel slightly supinated. Let me know what you think. Either way, my point is I think even with slight supination, inside picking and UUD feels easier to me. Here’s another example: Brandon Ellis Betcha Cant Play This pentatonic lick - YouTube
Brandon Ellis does the DDU economy sweep for
This run. When I try to play this at my fastest speed, I always go DUU instead of DDU for when he does two notes on one string and comes back for one note on the prior string. Maybe it could be I didn’t learn the lick properly and learned it closer to what’s better for me? Idk haha but my above statements still
Hold true. My YouTube video is below for my
Playing.
As to everyone else who responded to my questions I will read it tonight and get back to you!
@carranoj25 Yeah that looks great! It’s kind of hard to determine what pick strokes generate which notes since the sound is so distant though. So I have a hard time seeing where you are doing UXS or DSX in these lines and that’s also because of your very minute motion changes. Super cool! Do you feel the changes physically or does it happen more or less unconsciously?
Yes sorry this was filmed with a GoPro awhile ago haha clamped onto my headstock I think. Cant wait to get optimal footage with a magnet. It started unconsciously but I can feel wrist or forearm motion now when I do it. I can also feel how much easier or smoother it is to “turn my wrist or forearm” to inside pick than it is to get the pick to come outside and over the string for a downstroke. But you’re right they are minute changes so it can be hard to see. I think what I’ll do next is try to get a good video of me doing that Brandon ellis lick. That should show better my DUU preference since it happens across all the strings
for my techniques i feel turn key usx motion as very tension free compared to thumb heel plant dsx dart thrower. and yes dsx dart thrower feels more natural than usx dart thrower, maybe its because the motion follows through on the downstroke which is the escape stroke, so if you roll your thumb heel to more on the pinky heel side as you start on dsx to convert it to a more usx upstroke escape sure it can feel somewhat easy to do. but start at that same speed as dsx dart thrower in usx dart thrower heel plant? nope. so in some ways i can see what you mean, we must share similar picking traits. the problem i see i have with planting is that i have more tension when i plant on the low e string, my lanky arms have to really scrunch up, this isn’t as bad when i place the guitar between my legs. but if i put it on my right leg my trap and shoulder will tense up if i am not careful. with a more free floating gypsy jazz rest stroke usx wrist when i turn my hand out to get setup in position it seems to free up that tension on my classical guitar. you can try this for yourself just thumb heel plant dsx dart thrower wrist setup on the low e string, then switch your setup to a free floating wrist gypsy jazz rest stroke usx setup, and you will feel the tension disappear in your trap and shoulder if you have long arms like me. even here my classical guitar is a thin body electric so i feel if it was more of a full body acoustic the tension would be even less with the gypsy jazz free floating usx wrist setup.
and somehow i can start out with a 5 sentence paragraph and turn it into one big wall of text. 
sorry!
Yeah definitely, I tend to naturally plant on the higher strings with my current technique and when playing the high e my hands wants to become floating, there is less tension that way but more noise to worry about, though it can be done
I’m also more comfortable playing the top four strings but I think I’m becoming more comfortable with playing the A and low E with small natural adjustments over time
I have a feeling this is quite natural when learning wrist-forearm USX. 95% of everything Yngwie plays in this clip is on the top four strings. I’ve time-linked an example of one of the few times he goes down to the A and low E and his technique becomes more elbow based:
@qwertygitarr took these two videos today. let me know what ya think (anyone else can chime in too)
i show a down the neck angle and then from out in front. Pretty sure I do my DUU combo takes first and then DDU. One video is the main lick from Miracle Man (zakk wylde solo) and the other video is an attempt at the Brandon Ellis lick/video I posted
like take the 1 3 2 fragment kinda idea and start on the low e string so 3 2, 1 3 2, 1 3 2 (if you need me to show tab example let me know, the snake thing one note, sweep into next string 3 notes, sweep into next string 2 notes, upstroke escape back down one string, repeat. but start the fragment in the middle so start with 3 notes on the low e string.) but instead of planting free float the wrist you will feel way less tension to accomplish that style of run from the low string way easier. but i use rest strokes as well so it helps also.
Yeah that’s cool! Still pretty hard to see clearly when you go from DUU to DDU but they both seem to be just as effective for you. Your sound is very gainy so it’s also hard to hear how the sound of attack sounds. But hopefully the both techniques sound the same. Great playing anyway! What’s the difference in feel?
I realized now that the DUU you do is a multi escape lick since you need to clear the strings in both directions. So I would think that de DDU would be more efficient since it’s a one way lick but there seem to be no speed penalty for you. And then I remembered that I do a similar lick that is DUUU and really fast, and it’s also a multi escape lick. And now trying the opposite version, DDDU, wasn’t at all as easy to get even and fast.
Here is those licks I mentioned, DDDU first and DUUU second. You can see that I keep doing a rather exaggerated slant change in the DUUU lick but it doesn’t seem to slow the lick down. There is some hick ups in there but to be honest the later lick “feels” easier normally. What do you think?
Yes my apologies for the sound! It’s really not as gainy as you would think. It’s because I was using the pc webcam as a microphone to pick up my sound from my iLoud micro monitors lol. So it’s probably getting super compressed somewhere. Not sure how else to do it though. I think you’re right in that your DUUU lick felt or looked like it felt easier. Id be curious to see you try that Brandon Ellis lick both ways or even the Miracle Man solo lick both ways.
It might also make more sense in regards to my videos to clarify the sequence more. The Miracle Man lick is UDUU really when you start it over. Same with the Brandon Ellis one. It’s any lick with 3 notes that has to go back to the prior string I think?
Been trying to analyze this for awhile and I think the basics of it is that coming back to the previous string after an upstroke, it is easier to just turn the wrist like turning a doorknob a bit more. To go back with a downstroke after an upstroke is more of just making the wrist move to the radial side (radial deviation i think)?
Great playing though man, love your form
Well, I tried some of your licks (kinda) and found that for most other things USX feels more natural. The Miracle man thing works with DUU but becomes a little bit jerky with my slant changes. Both are quite hard to get rhythmically perfect.
The Ellis lick I couldn’t really take the time to learn so here is my version that is more or less the standard EJ 5 note lick. I probably need to plug in an amp next time so you can hear the guitar properly.
To me this works so great with USX and felt so janky the other way that I couldn’t really do it that way. The most important thing is to get it rhythmically even through all the sweeps. I think to get it to work I really have to push the pick INTO the plane of the strings quite hard. So there is a sort of positive tension playing these EJ style licks.
Maybe I need to really exaggerate the supination and the downstroke going into the guitar body? Idk maybe my hands are just weird lol
No I don´t think there is any wierdness with your hands, they look great and having a more stable setup might be a recipe that works in the long run. It clearly seems like that from Troys findings. Of course you can try a motion that is more slanted but your hands will tell you what feels the best. To me that feels more stable attack wise and rhythmic wise, so I have to go that route.