Why does my thumb appear to be doing "the worm"?!

Technique Critique
#9

Thanks for the posts, everyone! It’s also discussed in Troy’s video with Joe Stump regarding economy picking (around 2:10, but to be honest I don’t detect it as much - maybe since those exercises seem to keep DWPS (side question … is that lingo now replaced by “USX”?)

Wow Shima and Filho are both interesting examples; seems like they’re using it even when staying on the same strings. For me it seems present ONLY when changing strings - looks like something fun to try to experiment with! And as speed goes up and I start going to elbow, my hunch is that the tension I feel is excessive compared to the common advice of “you’ve got to be relaxed!”

FWIW, the two riffs I am working toward with 1&3 nps groups are 150/155 bpm


(0:44 in case this doesn’t work - by Archspire) and

(2:08 in case this doesn’t work - by Spawn of Possession)
For both of these I can really keep up cleanly only to about 85%
#10

Just chiming in: I do thumb movements as well, but it’s mostly flexed to more flexion, never extension like @_RH first post. I’ve posted a few things about it in the past as well.

#11

“..but I soon realized the thumb thing is a blessing for string tracking..”
Yes! I discovered the power of thumb for string tracking magically a couple of days ago.
Now the single sweep in the 5 notes of eric johnson is more on tempo and sounds better!

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#12

That’s awesome, levelling up.
Here’s an example of a recent clip of mine, sorry about reposting, it’s subtle but you can see the flex on the thumb for tracking.

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#13

How is one supposed to practice this? Like when are you supposed to make the thumb motions? Lol

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#14

@carranoj25 from my experience, “practicing” it was more about not thinking about it at all. I believe that I naturally do it, so when I used to force myself to not move my fingers because I “had to pick from my wrist” it felt very constrained. After I noticed how much thumb movement I had when I was playing well, I just kind of let it do its thing without thinking too much about it.

That being said, I think it’s more active doing slower lines, maybe as much movement as my wrist. As I speed up, the thumb movements become DBX assistance movements, not the primary movement.

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#15

Interesting, yeah it’s not something I do naturally. Always saw Yngwie and an old teacher do it so I always wanted to try it. I will experiment with it for fun. Just doing the movement without a guitar pick being held, it seems as if it’s half thumb movement and the other half is the index finger tip pulling/pushing the thumb pad. Do you find the same?

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#16

@carranoj25 definitely, I described it to a friend as a sawing motion.

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#17

Sawing is a good way to out it.

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#18

Michael Angel Batio uses his finger and thumb a lot for his more moderate speed playing. I say moderate, but he is still actually playing pretty damn fast. When he goes into full on shred mode though, he doesn’t seem to use it, finger and thumb sort of lock into place and the motions are coming from elsewhere (hard to say where exactly due to his unusual hand position)

#19

I use thumb motion for a few specific techniques. I tried eliminating it and was successful at it but it slowed me down. Then I saw videos of virtuosic players doing the same thing. Let “myself go” and found when I reintroduced the motion I skyrocketed my speed.

It mainly comes out in my sweep changes though not alternate picking. But if it’s comfortable I wouldn’t worry about anything. Comfy is always good. If it feels smooth and on time what’s the worry? My only concern with a technique is if it hurts physically or feels way too hard (secret: nothing feels hard when it’s baked in with proper technique and the skill is up to par) if it feels hard, I’m either not at that level technically OR I’m doing something wrong.

CtC was great for allowing that realization to sink in. If I can alternate pick 16th notes on one string at 300bpm there shouldn’t be tension EVER at 200bpm. It should feel comfy.

My playing now I aim for “sweat pants on a Sunday” vibe. I used to play like I was bracing for impact in a car accident. Sounded like it a lot too :wink:

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#20

16ths at 300bpm? Damn, that’s impressive. Not to derail this thread, but how did you develop such speed, if you don’t mind me asking?

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#21

I’ll preface with ive never gone to the extremes I’ve seen members here go to, I will when I get my magnet! For me if I can focus on the one and land every measure I give myself the benefit of the doubt. I’ve never done the slo mo recording software quantized review. One, I don’t have any real recording software and two, this isn’t a sport haha. But for me I honestly watched the CtC free video series on YouTube. The yngwie portion was totally eye opening as far as pick slant. That was an overnight “aha” moment. Then I joined masters in mechanics. Read all of that material, experimented with the things I was learning and scoured this forum for anything that could help with my issues that arose.

I’d say the six ultimate things I learnt that got me from 170bpm 16th feeling like light speed to 300bpm 16th in a little under a year (after over a decade of prior playing and six years of daily playing) were as follows.

  1. Actually have a practice routine, break stuff down into etudes. (Something I had never done)

  2. Actually focus on the right hand (something I had NEVER done)

  3. Practice with a metronome (something I had never done)

  4. Learn and Accept the fact that I’m an UWPS elbow motion USX no matter how much I want that gorgeous wrist motion to be my primary mechanic :joy:

  5. Stick out my pinky finger and get fancy with it (I don’t remember which member mentioned this but it literally melted my tension away immediately for my mechanic)

  6. When I get to the upper most level of my picking ability flex into the tension and accept it so I can relax everything else and kind of “vibrate” (bis tris elbow area)

There are so many more though. Im honestly just obsessed. My main priority in life every day after making sure my family is healthy and loved is to improve technically as a guitar player. It’s my passion and I’m obsessed. There’s no secret, I play the same patterns literally every day, when issues arise I go at it like an equation needing solving and when I reach a new level new problems arise and the process repeats itself. Two steps forward one step back. Ad infinitum. When I get bored or things get stagnant I write some new patterns or learn a new song. Today I spent two hours working on gallops. I got up to 240bpm 16th note gallops creating unique rhythmic patterns to the metronome. (I find it very hard to keep tension down with gallops these days… new problem to solve!) It was a BLAST. My wife doesn’t get it, my parents don’t get it, my coworkers don’t get it. But it’s what I love to do.

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#22

Eek! Would love to see some footage of your crazy speed!

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#23

Damn, that’s really impressive. Thanks for the detailed journey!
Something that really caught my attention there was you are doing an elbow USX motion? Is that elbow alone? I thought elbow alone was a DSX motion, but you’ve managed to generate a USX motion with it? That’s awesome! I’m sure I’m not the only one who would love to see this!

I have noticed that a lot of the extremely fast guys seem to use some elbow too. Maybe that’s one of the joints needed to push beyond 250bpm.

Anyway, great work! Would love to see you play someday. I do have a lot to learn!

#24

Not to add to the derailment, but if @MikeHendrycks can do 300 BPM 16ths, it would be faster than any measured picking (that isn’t fake).

#25

That can’t be true? Bursts of 300bpm 16th notes is only 150bpm 32nd notes. I’ve seen plenty of Jason Richardson tunes with that speed. I’m talking straight one note tremolo picking here. That hyper picking guy was at like 320bpm or something was he not?

If that’s true then I must not be as fast as i think. There are plenty of players faster then me.

I just ordered a Scarlett 2i2 last night. It should be here by Monday. I haven’t had recording capabilities for many moons but I’ll have to record my
Tremolo picking and see where the notes fall!

I know when I do bursts with a metronome it sounds to me like I’m playing 16ths at 300bpm shrugs

Like I said, I’m not banking my health or my family on this fact. I do however believe it to be true. We shall see :slight_smile:

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#26
  1. It’s way faster than I even remembered, I thought it was “only” 300.
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#27

@MikeHendrycks @Shredd I was wrong, 300+ is doable

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#28

Doable yes… advisable?..I’ll leave it up to you to decide! :grin:

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