Yngwie's effortless right hand?

When I see players like Yngwie or Michael Romeo, their right hand just looks absolutely effortless. Yet, it sounds like an act of God coming out of their amp.

On the other hand, Troy seems at least a little more tense than Yngwie, but accomplishes the same results. Personally, I don’t like the sound of a string that is feathered. I don’t see how you can get the intensity in sound like Yngwie gets and not pick really hard. Yet it certainly doesn’t appear that he is picking hard. Rick Graham LOOKS effortless but the pick sounds like its about to snap the string sometimes!

Do you guys consciously try to relax all aspects of your right arm to the point of little to no tension? Or is there some kind of balance? How hard do you pick the string? How hard do you hold the pick? Obviously all these things are variable but let’s just say for shredding purposes.

When I got my first motion my attack was very light on the strings. As it got more ‘baked in’ I find can hit the strings as hard or soft as I want…without an real change in unwanted tension…just react to the amp.

I have worked on not tensing up parts of my arm that just don’t seem to contribute to picking…like flexing a bicep or tricep like I’m flexing.

When you say your first motion, do you mean when you began playing? Or one of the motions you discovered from CtC? And was it a conscious effort from the beginning to make it light?

Rick has explained his approach to dynamics pretty well in this video, hope it helps :slight_smile:

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First motion since discovering CtC…first fast and smooth motion. I never intended it to initially be light…it just was…almost unusable to get good tone out of an amp…and forget an acoustic, however it progressed without thinking too much about it over time.

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There seem to be at least three ways to get some dynamic range on an electric guitar:

  1. Volume knob
  2. Volume pedal
  3. How far one displaces the string before it snaps free

My playing is poor for dynamic range because I try hard to be “forgiving” [of errors], so between edge picking and my pick’s shape (Dunlop Flow), I just can’t dig in that much. Do (1) or (2) count somewhat? :laughing: Another thing that I do that further hampers me is that I think that my “rig” behaves as if it has compression, and that saps dynamic range as well.

I think that Paul Gilbert has 0.6mm picks and he is really loud (when he wants to be), but I have no idea how he does that…

What kind of rig are you using?

It’s worth repeating whenever relevant: yngwie uses (or used to use) 8 gauge strings in E flat. If you haven’t tried it before, it definitely allows you to have a lighter touch while still having plenty of attack.

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This is true, and a great point that I actually haven’t fully considered before. And actually Michael Romeo tunes to D standard with 10’s. So that probably feels quite slinky as well. I’ve been considering putting a set of 10s on my RG and dropping it to D standard. And maybe it could be worth throwing a set of 8’s on the strat just to feel it out.

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If you try the yngwie setup, don’t forget to increase the action plenty to eliminate fret outs! You can get away with some insanely high action while still being totally playable.

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You know oddly enough, there is a guy in town that has absolutely killer tone and is an all around great player. His setup is pretty normal. Strat with EMGs into a Blues Jr, some regular old boss pedals and 2 OCD drives. And he uses 8s. His tone always blows me away when I play with him. So I know first hand that bigger strings doesn’t equal bigger tone. Slight change in subject

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I am currently learning some of the early Yngwie speed runs from Alcatrazz. What
I have learned so far is to sound like Yngwie I am having to use a very light touch with the picking. We are dealing with EXTREME precision when trying to play this early Yngwie stuff. If I get the precision - even if I use the lightest of touches - it sounds like I am picking hard. What I am doing is picking cleanly.
Another thing for me is the harder I pick the more difficult it is to get over the strings (as an alternate picker) when changing strings.

I actually don’t know how hard Yngwie was picking on the Alcatrazz stuff - but for me so far I have to go light.

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Wow that’s interesting. That gives me incentive to work on a lighter touch with both hands. I think that’s my next barrier to really breaking into the shred god realm. I always tell my students, “it looks effortless because it is”. And being self taught, it has been difficult to follow my own advice. But I am finally starting to grasp that you can play with a very light touch, at least with the left hand, and still sound intense.

I don’t know if this video has been up on the forum already, but here you can hear Yngwie in his prime, playing both unamplified and through the amplified with guitar volume turned way down. Maybe this can give some hint about his attack on the strings. To me it sounds like his attack is insanely even and consistent with minimal extra noise. It doesn’t sound like he is attacking the strings excessively hard but he definitely has a good solid tone. No feathering to my ears. And amplified his attack is so extremely intense yet fluid. Unmatched to this day imo.

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I agree, there are many clones but few with the compositional and flamboyance he has.

Often overlooked is the left-hand work that Yngwie considers much more important than the right-hand work. For years his routine was working on his left hand unplugged without picking even, he’s been known to wake up and start playing with just his left hand while making breakfast with his right :slight_smile:

I tried it for a week, single-string patterns with just the left hand, I found everything improved, my left hand was tracking along the string better, and I was relying on the string to be my rails if that makes any sense to anybody. Also I found my position changing to oddly get tighter, it’s hard to explain but I think I noticed when changing positions my leading or trailing finger would continue to slide along the sting but not fret if I wasn’t sliding into or from a note. I should get back to it.

(edit2: also noticed that my note volume/strength increased tremendously with better left hand work, almost like I was playing a master build mahogany guitar, they say tone is in the hands, I suspect this has a lot to do with it too)

He slept with his guitar and his left hand would find the neck before he opened his eyes, he did this for a decade as far as I know and maybe still does.

In my case, I spent 2 years working very hard on the picking hand. I have no issues picking anything now, but I realise my struggles and magic is in the fretting hand now. At some point, you develop that percussive attack on the right hand that sounds like a drum roll with the right amp and setup on the transients.

His setup, as far as I know, is using 8-11-14-22-32-46 and as said earlier in the thread, tuned half step-down, with action as high as your guitar saddles will go, this means using the highest saddles screws for all saddles. Lubing your nut and bridge contact points, with a floating bridge set to the G string going up a minor third when you deck the bridge with the term arm pulled all the way back.

The other thing is the right pairing equipment. To feel it I think you have to use a plexi type amp with one of his drive pedals into a G12T75 loaded cabinet. There are great players that manage it with Guitar Rig 3 too ( Roma Lee on you tube for example ), I don’t know how he manages the latency!

After he wrapped his car around a tree, when he came too, he was relieved it was his picking hand that had injuries and not his fretting hand! That said you still need to get past the picking issues if you haven’t had your right of passage on that as yet, no getting around it and your at the right place to get you going. And practice all waking hours :slight_smile:

Good luck! Play loud :slight_smile:

edit: minor typos

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Just wanted to address this.

Relaxed yes, that is very important but it’s the kind of relaxed that only a professional athlete would know, ready to spring at the speed of light. There’s a velocity of movement that’s more important than torque eventually, yet initially it feels like torque is more important as your work your way up the skill tree, there will come a point where you develop the strength and precision and torque control becomes secondary to a velocity dynamic.

Picking hard? There is no constant picking intensity eventually, it’s what you feel on the passage for dynamics and will come naturally. There is only controlling attack and amp response. Initially you will try to go for even play with compressed dynamics, but as you get better you will find the dynamics develop purely from feel.

Holding the pick. Your grip will evolve, but for most efficiency you will find the pick fully extended with the thumb bending thing critical. There is no curl on the index finger, and the contact patch with the thumb too is as far as you can take it, away from the bone joint. This gives you reduced motion eventually, high efficiency, but this make take some evolutions to achieve, watch Roma Lee’s right hand to understand what I’m trying to explain. Surprisingly this became a thing for me when I realised it forces a kind of angle that increases the percussive attack tremendously, especially on upstrokes. This works on a stratocaster, but not on an LP type, I find due to the guitar my hand rests differently and the pick rides closer to the thumb joint, I’ve just started playing an LP type guitar and I find what works for YJM on the strat does not translate to the LP. Also the taut nature of the shorter scale string ( I’m using the same YJM gauge, but tuned to std.) I find the bounce back feedback from the string different even though I don’t feel the string tension any different on my fretting hand. The bridge being higher away from the body makes a difference on how I anchor, I seem to anchor much less, with with the strat I’m almost always anchored.

Using the same picks as YJM, us mortals need to buy the purple 1.5 Dunlop picks… initially I’d scratch the pick with the point of a knife to create a burl checked pattern on both sides for grip, eventually that became just one side, and then I soon realised this wasn’t necessary as the flat surface would be quite sticky naturally. This is like riding a bike on a high gear with almost no throttle, you feel like you’re going to lose control but you don’t. Pick tension is different for everybody, some hold it too tight for my tastes and that translates low dynamics and a stiffer sound, that’s fine if that’s what your are going for, but for that floaty wailing with moments of sheer terror, the dynamics I think are in a more relaxed grip. Starting out you will not know what is optimal, but just make sure your using a plexi type amp, driven by a real DOD YJM 308 or his red fender pedal, else you will not achieve the right environment to develop the touch. The plexi could be a plugin like spark for example, they have a great emulation, I have a real plexi and that thing I find comes closest with one of the real YJM hardware analog pedals.

Also some how I don’t think of YJM as a shredder in the traditional sense, to me he’s more like a time travelling 17th century violin player. Listen to lots of classical violin and celine dion, it’s all phrasing, else it’s just “shred” :slight_smile:

Hope that was helpful and not pointless.

edit: just want to say this is my experience with all this… your mileage may vary. Don’t like writing all this down in a public forum when you don’t know how it will be taken. Thanks.

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Wow. Hearing him unplugged and on clean. That’s crazy. Thanks for sharing.

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Thanks for all the replies. All helpful stuff. I’ve been at it for 21 years now. Being self taught (at least technique wise), the realm of super clean shred has always eluded me. I’m naturally an economy, sweeping and two way pickslanting guy. Always wondered why my favorite licks ended on downstrokes until Troy Grady lol. Been working on Yngwie/Eric Johnson style DWPS for a years now since discovering CtC, and getting that razor sharp precision has been the biggest challenge of my guitar life. That and learning to relax. At my best, I’m still a 2 way pick slanter and economy picker, but it lacks the muscle of dwps. I think it would do me some good to work on that planting approach in the Rick Graham video.

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My left hand is noisy, so it is quite humbling to work on left hand only stuff. But I think it would help me tremendously with my synchronization and timing.

Something that is kind of odd - as a result of spending years learning to undo the death grip, I feel like my synchronization of both hands still hasn’t recovered. For example, ascending and descending fours on one string is quite challenging for me these days to keep smooth. It kind of pisses me off that certain things still elude me. Like Thunderstruck. I’ll get it going then lose my synchronization. Most times that riff just sounds like a mess. I think it stems from my lack of alternate picking experience. I’ve been sweeping, 2wps’ing and economy picking from pretty much the beginning. I realize now that I developed my 2wps technique from following the kind of bad advice of “alternate pick everything”.

It’ll come with time and the right technique, being here is already part of the solution.

This is normal, I used to curl my picking index finger, it took a month or two of instability to uncurl and for it to feel normal.

Do these exercises first thing in your practice routine without the picking hand for 18 mins a day. Focus and stick to it, you will 100% get the benefits within a week. I feel on the single string stuff, it’s about the left hand, the right is just up down but you’ll be amazed at what you learn when you do it without the right hand, you’ll realize all kinds of nuances. Only expect results after a good nights sleep. A few cycles of this and you will learn a new way to optimally spend your time.

Another thing is about the picking motions, for me, and I think this is very important. It’s pushing down on the string for downstrokes, and a percussive flick on the upstroke. I may be exaggerating this effect but this is how I “think” about it. It’ll come more naturally as you work with it.

edit: BTW I too started learning YJM’s stuff after 20 years of playing :slight_smile:
unlearning needs discipline and patience, it’ll pay off, stick with it, it could take 7 months to a year to start feeling it, and it’s just never too late to go for it when you want it bad enough. It’s a great feeling once you get going!

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Thanks those are good points. Yeah I feel like a dunce sometimes because I play at what I call a semi pro level. So I feel like some of these things should just come easier to me. But I’m not a teenager anymore lol. CtC has helped in so many ways but it has also kinda imploded my technique. Before all this, I never really worried about precision. I would just turn on overdrive and sweep and economy pick away and just sort of match it all up with my left hand.

I know some of it is inefficient practice. But I have spent 4 or 5 years working on this stuff and it is still a very slow process. Personally, I have advanced much quicker in the last few weeks from re learning songs and more intuitively incorporating these techniques than just working on exercises.

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