Hard stuck at 130 BPM picking

Technique Critique
#1

Hey guys, first of all i want to say a big thank you to Troy and his team for what is honestly a dream for any guitarist trying to improve their technique. The level of detail that goes into the analysis and breaking down of minute details in technique is insanely impressive not to even start on the production value of the videos and the value that this website offers. I’ve already made tons of improvements to my right hand technique, but I’ve unfortunately hit a bit of a wall in improving my speed and i’m having a lot of trouble self diagnosing what I need to do and it’s been an extremely frustrating rut to get out of.

A little background i first picked up guitar when i was 18 (I’m 22 now) but I mostly only played chord stuff and never got too into lead material as i played only a few times a week and had month gaps where i did not play pretty frequently. A little over a year ago i discovered progressive metal that were heavy with crazy lead lines and this led me to discover the potential guitar had beyond just playing chords and basic riffs. So i decided to start practicing diligently and made fast progress but I always struggled immensely with picking as I’m actually left handed but I play a right handed guitar.

I mostly use economy picking, with a mix of alternate, and i struggle a lot more with ascending lines (going up) than i do descending lines. I have a decent tremolo speed which is why it confuses me even more as to why i cannot play faster then 130 on lead lines. I have a few clips of me playing below, if there is any other clips i should post or angles please let me know!

This is me just playing a 6 string c major scale at 130 BPM (sloppy)

a E minor scale run (economy picked) at 170 BPM triplet 8th notes which i think is around 130 bpm 16th notes in speed

an alternate picking lick at 120 bpm that i struggle to get through

same alternate picking lick at 130 bpm that i failed

a tremolo run im not sure the bpm

Any feed back or help would be immensely appreciated thank you!

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#2

Looks like the trem video is using elbow motion, whereas the scales looks like wrist motion. I’m guessing that’s why you feel that you can’t go much faster when doing scales. Maybe try the elbow motion on some of the scales, or simpler segments?

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#3

Really awesome tremolo motion, coming from the elbow. I’ve been struggling with the same problem as you, I’m mainly and elbow picker (and had problems accepting that), and transformed my playing in a few weeks here following @tommo’s and @Pepepicks66’s tips.

Let me send you a link to the post where I’m playing the 6 string 3nps scales. On the ascending run, I don’t really care if I mess up the string change after each 6th note (which is an upstroke) and swipe through the string as the elbow motion is escaping on downstrokes. I’m trying to use the same helper motion as I do for the descending runs (slight rotation with the forearm I think), but it works better on the descending stuff for sure.

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#4

that would make sense as i learned to pick using wrist motion when i first started getting lessons, the idea of using elbow motion in my lead playing is very foreign to me and im not too sure how to approach it but i’ll give it a try thanks!

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#5

hey man thanks for the kind words! i’ve seen some of your playing on the forum and honestly super inspiring! i’d be very happy to get to your level of technique for picking haha,
im still pretty new to a lot of the terminology here and am confused about a lot of the concepts but when you say you’re swiping through the string from my understanding it means you’re doing a sweep motion over it to get to the right position correct?

#6

Simple ascending/descending sixes would be a good way to get the feel of the fast elbow motion with string changes:

G-------------------|-------------------|----------11-12-14-|
D-------------------|----------10-12-14-|-10-12-14----------|
A----------10-12-14-|-10-12-14----------|-------------------|
E-10-12-14----------|-------------------|-------------------|

etc… and doing the reverse. As elbow motion is downstroke escape motion, all the string changes will be after a downstroke. This way you won’t be stuck between two strings and will help you to get the feel of smooth string shifts.

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#7

I’ve been in the same situation (with the same peak tempo as you, around 120-130 bpm 16th notes) in the beginning of February :slightly_smiling_face: And you have a great tremolo already, I’m sure you’ll get there in no time.

Swiping means you just push through the string and mute the note in some way so it is barely noticable on faster tempos. It means you don’t care if you can’t escape the string and you are just pushing through with the pick.

I’d really focus on the elbow motion for a while as it looks pretty smooth and consistent and it could help you to experience how to play fast sooner.

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#8

It looks to me as if you laid your wrist flat on the bridge and lifted it up each time you were changing strings (string hopping).
Instead, try to place it more at an angle and use pick slanting to escape the strings.

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#9

That’s actually super motivating man!! Gives me a lot of hope, because honestly a lot of times it really feels it’s a plateau i just can’t overcome, i’m gonna start practicing with the six notes per string lines and see if i can get it through just elbow motion, now with that being said i noticed you mentioned the elbow motion is downstroke escapes, so i’m guessing the swipes come into play whenever a line ends on an upstroke?

#10

Exactly. And when you are doing descending stuff, it’s easier to add in a helper motion (I use some kind of rotational movement as you can see on my descending scale playing) as you can’t really swipe with elbow on these descending lines, it works only on ascending parts.

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#11

got it, thanks so much for the help and feedback man! Gonna give it a go and try to beat the tendency to use mainly use wrist motion out of me

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#12

thanks for the feedback! definitely a bad habit of mine, and lifting it off the bridge alone actually does help quite a bit

#13

Check out Rusty Cooley, Jason Richardson. Both are elbow players. No one can convience me after seeing those guys that I can’t use my elbow for guitar playing.

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#14

Bro its funny you mention Jason because he’s exactly who i thought of when everyone mentioned elbow motion ahaha, him and Stephen Taranto are my two heroes when it comes to right hand technique

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#15

Fun fact, Jason says he’s picking only from his wrist and it’s a bad habit to use any elbow motion :smiley: I think many of these great players are not even aware of what they are doing.

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#16

that’s crazy considering that me, someone who’s terrible at diagnosing these things was able to tell with Jason because of how obvious it is ahaha :joy:

#17

Just don’t tell him, he may feel offended :thinking:

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#18

Man, that tremolo is clean a/f! That sounds fantastic. You’re clearly able to sync your hands on a single string, so that’s job 1 and job 2 figured out!

I don’t know how familiar you are with the concepts but, an elbow based motion like your killer tremolo demonstration in the last video is (almost always) a down stroke escaping motion, ie: you’ll want to switch strings after a down stroke.

EDIT - I should’ve kept reading, clearly this has all been covered by @gabrielthorn lol so, yeah what he said.

The tremolo picking is still awesome though. :smiley:

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#19

thank you so much for the kind words! much appreciated! :grin:

the thing is, a lot of the concepts are still a bit foreign and hard to understand for me, i understand pickslanting to a degree and the problem of string hopping but because when learning guitar i thought wrist motion was the only viable method for picking i have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around elbow picking although i seem to be unconsciously doing it in my tremolo

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#20

I hear that. ‘Pickslanting’ is kind of a misnomer for how the motions and the way they relate to playing is explained now. Troy has said on numerous occasions that the slant of the pick actually has very little to do with the player’s ability to clear strings when playing.

That ability is influenced directly by the path of the pick stroke when playing through a string. Some paths escape on an upstroke (think Eric Johnson) some paths escape on a downstroke (think John Mclaughlin or your tremolo motion!) and some paths are gently arced and allow for escapes on an up and a downstroke, at the expense of a bit of absolute top end speed, likely due to the increased complexity of the motion (think Martin Miller) and this type of motion is more often used when playing like, 1 note perstring phrases like Steve Morse’s Tumeni Notes for instance.

There are all sorts of additional variables like ‘single escape helper motions’ and (insert whatever OTHER variables help allow playing like this here) but for now, I’d concentrate on looking at the phrasing other primarily elbow driven players use and pick out something of theirs you like and practice that.

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