Help with Crosspicking after 1 year

Technique Critique
#1

Hello all,

I’ve been working on my crosspicking for almost a year now but I’m still struggling with the basic motion. I can’t get downstrokes where I flex my wrist to feel natural. If I make a big enough movement to clear the strings and feels “smooth”, I often end up hitting the adjacent strings. Picking on one string as well as "inside’ picking feels extremely awkward. Upstrokes also have a similar problem, when doing a roll I often hit the G string I’m supposed to skip. I’ve attached two videos, one of my playing a roll and one of me doing a pentatonic pattern. I did not slow them down as the function is built into YouTube now. If anyone has any advice please let me know.

Cheers


#2

Bump, I’m still struggling and can’t make any progress. Can anyone help???

#3

Hey @ParkerLicks, I’d like to try it out to see what things turn up for me. Do you have tabs anywhere? (I can sort out the first one but I’d like to know what fretting and fingering you’re using, and I can’t really tell what’s going on in the second one).

Initial thoughts from a non-pro player: On the plus side, your picking hand looks pretty relaxed. I think you’re probably in a good place, though. My initial recommendation for the first lick: you’re trying to do too much at once. Break it up into very small chunks, like 4 notes only, and work on the first 4 notes until it’s smooth, fast, and effortless. Then take the next 4, etc etc. There is a technique in piano practice called “repeated note groups” - see this post for a brief discussion: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=4858.msg46601#msg46601

#4

Also: what wrist position should you have (I’m not sure what “flexed” looks like); what tempo should these be at; is there a player that does these licks you’d recommend? I don’t play this style and so am not sure where to start. cheers, jz

#5

I’m trying some of the forward roll and petnatonics patterns I know from Troy. Wrist position wise, it’s supposed to be supinated. The flexiion happens on the downstroke :). Troy’s advice was to learn an etude and try and figure it out through feel and that worked for me on downward pickslanting but isn’t with crosspicking and I’m unsure what to change.

#6

Right, got it. My initial thoughts, on re-reviewing your video, is that your right arm is floating, which can make the picking more difficult. If you add a supporting point (e.g., pinky of picking hand anchored to the guitar base, or perhaps the heel of your hand firmly near the bridge per Molly Tuttle), then you’ll have a good point of reference.

Can you give me the tabs and fingering you’re using? I don’t play this style myself yet, though I’d like to, and I’d like to try out exactly what you’re playing before offering any substantive thoughts. If you take a few moments to tab things out here, I’ll spend time on it. Cheers! jz

#7

Hmm not sure that’s the issue, my right arms isn’t floating anyway, I anchor on the bridge. I appreciate the help, I hope one of members of the forum who’s got this tech down can pop in to give me some feedback as well.

#8

ok, without tabs I can’t help. Good luck!

#9

They are in Troy’s “Crosspicking with the wrist” workshop, I think its forward roll simple.

#10

To try and provide some more insight, I’m uploading another video of me doing a forward roll pattern. I’m trying to use my smoothest movement, you can hear lots of smooshing and imprecise movements and just swiping in general. What am I doing wrong? What can I change? https://youtu.be/ltKpfr1fi_k

#11

Hi, I struggle with crosspicking too. I think that the main challenge and the reason that not so many people have figured out this type of picking is that you have to facilitate two different types of pickstroke from extacly the same grip and extacly the same arm position. At least it’s like that for me, it’s always one side of the motion that is problematic, if I have the USX part working DSX part feels not right, then I readjust to make the DSX part comfy and USX starts to fail. I feel it especially on inside string changes because they’re unswipable.
What I understood recently after switching to 3 finger grip and having really nice progress is that I was not experimenting enough. Now I’m not staying in one place for more than a few minutes, if it doesn’t work it doesn’t work and I readjust. Move your arm a little bit to the left or to the right, grip the pick a little differently than before, etc. and try again.

2 Likes
#12

+1 on this!

It’s very easy to fall into the trap of thinking “this is how it’s supposed to work”, despite it not working, and just keep on hammering away on something without making any significant changes.

2 Likes
#13

Hi @ParkerLicks, I recorded a short video with my experimenting. Even though my video sounds very prescriptive (b/c I’m working out my own ideas for teaching/writing), it’s not a lesson or a how-to, it’s where I’m at after some observations and watching the pros (Troy and Andy Wood) :slight_smile:

Overview of content:

Cheers! jz

3 Likes
#14

This perfectly encapsulates my experience! What grip did you try? Sometimes I struggle on what I could change to experiment in terms of physical position without straying too far from what the movement requires (ie supinated forearm)

#15

Hi guys,

Based on what I’ve seen and briefly experienced, I don’t feel that the motion can be broken up into fixed dsx/usx components. In various places, Andy W talks about the “pendulum” motion, and in the various places I watch his motion is very rounded and fluid. He doesn’t talk about his finger/thumb movement at all, but it’s there.

My opinion: To get this kind of constant adjustment, you need to have reach complete right arm/hand relaxation, so that you have a baseline to build from. If you start with tension, and try to “work through” the movement, I’m pretty sure your hands will get tripped up. Then take each small motion, keep eliminating tension, and join them together. Fast and slow and fast and slow practice :slight_smile:

ps - I’m still working on this too! Cheers and have a good one! z

#16

It is a round movement but personally I’ve experienced being able to clear certain strings easier than others, and have outside string changes feel the easiest.

#17

Right, outside will feel easier, definitely. Since you’ve been stuck for so long, I guess more experimenting is in order.

Re-reviewing your various videos, some other observations, or changes that you might play around with:

  • I still see no up-down movement in your first pair of videos … but that could be b/c of camera distance, etc. If you were to try consciously adding some, does that help?
  • your pick grip is quite deep, meaning you appear to hold the pick up by or even past the knuckle. While that’s a solid grip, it could be taking away from your agility. Your hand also looks rather solid. Watching Andy W, he’s holding the pick much nearer the tip of the finger, and you can see the fingers moving. I’ve been playing with this for a few hours today as well, and think that the finger mobility is extremely important. Try modelling your hand after Andy’s hand, try adding a bunch of finger movement, and really loosen up that picking hand.
  • Troy’s movement is completely different from yours and Andy’s – he’s attacking the strings with much more pick edge. Try switching things entirely to his system, and see if that works better for you!

Cheers, jz

1 Like
#18

Hi I love cross picking as it feels like the ultimate challenge and it creates a really unique sound which a lot of players don’t do because it’s so darn hard.

Whilst I don’t claim to be an expert I recommend learning some Steve Morse stuff as it’s melodic, interesting and really fun.

Great exercises are: Tumeni notes intro, both sections the high 3 strings part and low 3 strings. The intro to endless waves and air on a six string.

I don’t know about you but I quite literally cannot bring myself to play exercises anymore, learning bits of songs is more is much better.

1 Like
#19

Any advice for just getting the basic motion? I dont know what else to change

#20

Based on your videos, it sounds / looks like you definitely have the “basic” motion down