Cascades Eric style with DSX

Playing Technique
#1

Hi there
I am trying my hand at some cascading pentatonics using the cascade seminar.

I can only play with a DSX motion, so I can do cascading 4s, 6s with alternate picking starting with an upstroke. I can also do 3s and 5s by sweeping strategically. The licks aren’t exactly the same but the idea is there same

However I want to ask about trying to play some licks from say the intro to cliffs of Dover.

The way it’s tabbed and Troy plays it in the seminar (chapter 28) it seems that this is impossible with a DSX motion, as I always get trapped after an upstroke buried itself in the strings and the next note is unreachable however I try and plan my picking.

is the key then to just slightly change the licks so that it works for me? For that intro it is so fast that most listeners won’t tell. It would mean I end up with my own version which is not note for note, but is similar and works with a DSX technique.

Does anyone have any advice? It’s frustrating only being able to play DSX and getting stuck. I have tried several times to develop a USX motion but my hand just won’t do it.

#2

Andy Wood uses DSX most of the time, but he demonstrated on his live stream just yesterday that he often does what feels right for a particular line. In this case he uses the pendulum or key turning motion ala EVH to do a double escape for each turnaround. It is essentially a DBX motion but something he only does somtimes in order to play the things he wants to play.

#3

Thanks! Speedy reply! I really appreciate that

I have tried to learn some kind of DBX motion/turns thing to get out of the strings after an upstroke but it just does not work. I spent years trying to learn this after initially learning how to pick fast with a DSX motion so I could play bluegrass. The end result was not being able to play more than 4 notes on anything because my hands got stuck. I remember Troy telling me in a long thread to just focus on DSX only changes for now.

But doing that does mean lots of licks are out of bounds for me. So do I just live with this and make my own sound, or versions of songs?

Sometimes I just think I should just give up because who ever heard of a guitar player who can only switch strings one way? Even the famous DSX and USX ‘only’ players have found ways to switch the other way and I just can’t seem to get it :disappointed:

#4

Hey, I play more or less the exact way you described, with descending sweeps where necessary also hammers/pull offs. I will try and tab out the way I played the intro to cliffs of dover, although it’s been a while since I attempted it. You can’t see my right hand in the vid but this is how it sounds with downstroke escape!

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CamkWdpDW74/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Will try and tab it out later on!

2 Likes
#5

Wow, very impressive! If you are able to tab it out that would be immensely helpful and appreciated.

What is your experience of playing this way, do you doing you end up slightly embellishing licks to make them fit your technique?

#6

dover 2.pdf (52.0 KB)

The last section is descending 5s starting on the note d on the b string, two notes on g string, 2 on d string.

Then descending fives using the same notes per string starting on the note A on the g string

The last part is six notes descending starting on E on the d string descending through pos 1 of the minor pentatonic scale.

#7

It’s something I’ve developed since I first discovered cracking the code, I realised that for whatever reason it was, I naturally found it easier to change strings after a downstroke.

I got into Eric Gales, he has an Eric Johnson ish style with the cascading type licks so I decided to try it out, and just built a vocabulary around mixing patterns of 3,4,5 & 6 together.

If you are trying to go for a note for note approach some things will translate quite easily, whereas others maybe more difficult especially if you wanted to pick every note, I find if I do this it can create really tricky left hand fingerings, but on the plus side you do come up with new ideas which are fresh and maybe not to common/used!

3 Likes
#8

Wow
Thank you so much. I see the ideas here, let me give this a good and report back!

#9

Ok thanks
It’s encouraging that you have found a way to play DSX and mix it up with other strategies to get around the strings. It gives me some hope, thank you!

#10

No problem, I’ll share a few more ideas at some point when I get chance. :+1:

#11

That would be awesome. Anything you have that you can help me with. For context I can pick on a single string at around 170bpm 16th notes. I can do the Dsx changes pretty cleanly with open strings but I really struggle with left hand speed and sync.

So I have a core mechanic, but I need A LOT of work to actually turn that into music. I am million miles away from you and most other ppl on here.

#12

I’m in the same camp and was always inspired by posts from the late great Adam Przeździecki. Here’s one of his classic posts: Tornado of Souls solo for DSX players (DSX + hybrid trick) and some Tumeni Notes attempts.

3 Likes
#13

Wow, thanks for these. Yes I like the phrase ‘limitation breeding creativity’ for this. He was a great player!

Do you have any samples of your Dsx playing I’d love to see

#14

Hi @Joep36

Could I ask you a question? I’ve noticed this theme in this lick:

image
image1271×590 91.6 KB

It looks like if you have a single note on one string followed by a note on the string below it you make sure it is played with a downstroke, so that you can escape.

Therefore you seem to play the previous note with legato so it gives you time to hop over the string you need to, even though according to the rules of DSX you should have picked the note because you still could have escaped. But you would have escaped ‘in the wrong direction’ as that single note on the upper string could only have been played with an upstroke, leading to you being stuck.

Have I got this right? It’s a very clever way of getting around a limitation of DSX…

I just read in another thread from @tommo that one way of playing 5s is

U-D
U-pulloff
D

So maybe that will need to be another picking pattern I need to learn to get over

Thanks!

#15

Ha! Thanks for digging that up :slight_smile:

I realised another pattern is in principle available if you are willing to do hybrid picking, and in particular do upstroke followed by middle finger pluck. The pattern is like so (say on the e-B-G strings):

e string - middle finger pluck + D
B string - U + D
G string - U

after the isolated “U” on the G string, you’ll connect to a "middle finger pluck on the B string and start over. For me the tricky bit is to do upstroke + middle pluck, but I have’t experimented much with it and I know many players that can do that well

#16

Nice!
It seems like if you have a one way pick motion, these hacks that are not strictly alternate picking are really useful for licks where your picking motion won’t work, but you don’t want to embellish the lick or want the same pattern. So far it looks like they are

  • sweeps
  • legato
  • hybrid picking

I’m just starting out here but when you first did, did these ruin your flow and add tension to your hand, did you have to get over that? I find hybrid picking ruins my flow, makes my hand a bit tense. Do I just need to relax and chill when doing it?

#17

If you get any tension then your body is telling you right away that whatever your doing is not going to work.

Jon Bjork has a good video on light touch (this goes for both hands) from the other day, which he picked up from Kiko’s interview on Rick Beatos channel. It’s really good and instantly can improve your technique.

#18

Thanks

Do you have a link or a title? I’m searching on his YouTube channel but I can’t seem to find anything that matches your description

#19

Just a pedantic “correction” :grin:

What you call “hacks” I call “techniques”! :wink:

1 Like
#20

This is essentially the DSX mirror to what Chris Brooks calls “the lone note exception” in Yngwie’s USX strategy. Eric Johnson often does something similar also to maintain USX.

If you’re comfortable with hybrid picking, you can solve most bad string changes in USX or DSX. In USX, following an upstroke with a hybrid pluck solves many of these “lone note exception” cases. In DSX, following an upstroke with a hybrid pluck allows for an ascending string change while the pick is trapped.

Not all forms are compatible with hybrid picking, but combining hybrid picking with single escape mechanics adds tremendous capability.

2 Likes